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  #1  
Old 12-17-2005, 01:21 AM
imported_getfunky imported_getfunky is offline
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Default 8/b - Trips on 5th st.

Wondering whether to reraise on 5th, but my read was that this player was weak and I believed the low was made. What about my 6th st. call? I thought I was either beat, or I'd lose the player with a reraise, so a call made the most sense. Is this overthinking? Lastly the river, anyone think a smooth call is better?

7 Card Stud High-Low ($3/$6), Bring-In $1 (converter)

3rd Street - (0.58 SB)

Seat 2: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 3: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 4: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 5: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___brings-in
Seat 6: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 7: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls

4th Street - (1.92 SB)

Seat 3: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks___folds
Seat 7: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls

5th Street - (2.46 BB)

Seat 3: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 7: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___raises
Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets___calls

6th Street - (8.46 BB)

Seat 3: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets___calls
Seat 7: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___raises
Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls

River - (14.46 BB)

Seat 3: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] xx___checks___folds
Seat 7: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] xx___bets___calls
Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___raises

Total pot: (18.46 BB)
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  #2  
Old 12-17-2005, 02:31 PM
Alchemist Alchemist is offline
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Default Re: 8/b - Trips on 5th st.

I'm not one to play split pairs often so I'd probably fold 3rd. I think this hand is a good example of the kind of dangerous situations you can get into.

I think the bet on 5th is fine. It's unlikely Seat 7 has a straight but he'll play it strong as the only one with a possible low at that point. 6th street is a real problem. I highly doubt you're losing anyone here with a reraise although he may have led out in order to have you face two bets. I suspect you're probably ahead of Seat 3 as it's unlikely he has trips or a flush with all those dead spades. Since he didn't 3-bet, you're probably ok here.

I would raise the river, I think he might pay you off with a lot hands you beat. Nice catch.
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  #3  
Old 12-17-2005, 08:25 PM
AlanBostick AlanBostick is offline
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Default Re: 8/b - Trips on 5th st.

On sixth, you've got more to fear from Seat 3's possible flush than seat 7's "possible" straight. Fives are almost completely dead and sevens aren't too live. Seat 3 stayed in with a suited brick on fourth and catches suited on sixth. Sure spades don't look too live, but why would she stick around once she'd bricked off on fourth?

Of course, once you cold-called seat 7's sixth-street raise, seat 3 meekly calls afterwards. No trips, no flush. Raising on the river is necessary, because you get paid off if seat 3 does happen to catch a miracle spade -- she can't tell if you filled up or made a low lock.

I'd say you played it just fine from start to finish.
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  #4  
Old 12-17-2005, 10:57 PM
imported_getfunky imported_getfunky is offline
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Default Re: 8/b - Trips on 5th st.

thanks for the insight .. i agree split baby pairs are dangerous, and the looser and weaker the competition, the less likely I am to play them .. but against average competition, I personally want to play the best of them (ace kicker is much better and fives as alan b. mentioned help deaden str8s) so that oppononents can't put me only on a low or a big buried pair
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  #5  
Old 12-17-2005, 11:17 PM
imported_getfunky imported_getfunky is offline
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Default Re: 8/b - Trips on 5th st.

thanks alan you make some excellent points, but I thought a bit more about the river after your response .. if the player does make the flush, most likely she'll raise so the pot gets jammed either way - raising, I lose half a bet if the player folds one pair she would have called with, calling, I lose half a bet if she'd cold call two bets with 2 pair so I think it comes down to reads- either way, needless to say, middle position stinks!
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  #6  
Old 12-18-2005, 12:39 AM
bholdr bholdr is offline
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Default Re: 8/b - Trips on 5th st.

third: in an aggressive game, i may fold this, due to the dead ace... if the ace was live, i'd probably be raising third. if it was a low ante game (5/10, say) i'd fold on third, too... but i think you made the right move for the spot you were in...

fourth: call is correct, of course

fifth: this is intresting, i would be happy to raise- it's almost impossible for you to be behind for the high end (you got his fives), and you have a backdoor draw to a strong low... unless they have some miricle camoflauged hand(like a 45678 or a bigger set), you own a much bigger share of the pot than your opposition, and should be pushing yer edge.

sixth: this is a tough street... luckily, the pot is big enough that you can easily call a double bet... i think that the 468J is clearly trying to raise you off an appearent low draw. i also call here.

river: i like the raise. if it were high-only, it's a smooth call, but your raise in a H/L game will look like a made low draw raising for value, and if the QA77 made trips or a flush, they won't think: "BOAT!?!?" and fold... and unless you've seen him C/R the nuts before i wouldn't fear a re-raise.

nh.
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  #7  
Old 12-18-2005, 11:39 PM
benwood benwood is offline
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Default Re: 8/b - Trips on 5th st.

I'm still not sure about this hand.I would welcome further comments on the following.

What about?
3rd:A fold?
4th:A raise?
5th:A re-raise or a check-raise?
6th:A raise?
River:A call?
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  #8  
Old 12-19-2005, 12:59 PM
Alchemist Alchemist is offline
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Default Re: 8/b - Trips on 5th st.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm still not sure about this hand.I would welcome further comments on the following.

What about?
4th:A raise?

[/ QUOTE ]
Eww. Raising a guy who caught a suited baby (when we only have 3 to a low) is spewing. Even if hero's 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] was the 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] he could still be behind for low. You'd then have to hope he bricks on 5th and you catch good. Even then he probably won't fold to your bet (depending how good his low draw and/or high potential is).
[ QUOTE ]

5th:A re-raise or a check-raise?

[/ QUOTE ]
What for? I certainly wouldn't want to with someone likely freerolling his two opponents. A check-raise might be a good way to measure Seat 3's strength (assuming Seat 3 checks when checked to him). But my main concern is Seat 7's possible straight/straight draw. I don't want to put more money in the pot I don't need to in case my trips don't improve.

[ QUOTE ]

6th:A raise?

[/ QUOTE ]
If you hate money. You can't make a low now and your opponents know it. Why would they think the J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] helped you? With Seat 7 having a made low and Seat 3 (who you know is going high) leading out catching a 3rd spade also giving him an open pair, a raise is suicidal. I'm hovering my mouse over the fold button here.
[ QUOTE ]
River:A call?

[/ QUOTE ]
Tough to say. I would probably raise just because in my experience Seat 3 would call the double bet here.
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  #9  
Old 12-19-2005, 02:44 PM
mscags mscags is offline
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Default Re: 8/b - Trips on 5th st.

I don't mind the third and fourth street play. If you're gonna play this hand on third then I think you need to take one off on fourth. If the 3 or 7 seat would have completed on third I could seriously think about folding fourth, but as no one has shown much strength I would take on off here.

Anyway, fifth is clearly the interesting spot. I think a reraise could def be in order depending on the opponent. If seat 7 is a player who wont make this raise without the low then there isnt much point raising because you want to keep the other low draw in now. If he has a flush draw then he probably isnt going anywhere but thats not the worst thing that could happen to us. Now the reraise becomes very useful when Seat 7 will make this play with just some type of draw ie maybe a four low+pair, two pair maybe, four low+gut shot, etc. When he can do this, a raise would accomplish a ton if it will knock out seat 7. If seat 7 calls again then he is either an idiot or probably has a flush draw to go along with a low draw. The raise makes your equity go way up when you knock him out. Im not that worried about seat 7 scooping me because 1) spades are pretty dead. 2) I have all of his straight cards and 3) I have outs to fill up still. I think the raise is very player dependent though, but a very interesting spot.

The rest of the hand I play the same. Not a whole lot you can do really, cross your fingers and hope for the best.

Mike
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  #10  
Old 12-20-2005, 01:31 AM
imported_getfunky imported_getfunky is offline
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Default Re: 8/b - Trips on 5th st.

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, fifth is clearly the interesting spot. I think a reraise could def be in order depending on the opponent. If seat 7 is a player who wont make this raise without the low then there isnt much point raising because you want to keep the other low draw in now. If he has a flush draw then he probably isnt going anywhere but thats not the worst thing that could happen to us. Now the reraise becomes very useful when Seat 7 will make this play with just some type of draw ie maybe a four low+pair, two pair maybe, four low+gut shot, etc.

[/ QUOTE ] I agree mscaqs, this is the interesting street .. it's similar to our discussion a few weeks back about a whether to knock out one of two low draws with a big flush to increase our scooping chances, should the 3 open babies not have made his hand yet - and I had said it's read dependent, as here I did feel strongly the low was made - however the other factor is we don't have a made hand - I believe Ray Zee said 'big flush' to simplify the discussion w/o including the variable of protecting your hand, as in a small flush or big str8.
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