creative CR bluff, or chip spewing and gettin lucky?

pfkaok · #1 10-19-2005, 01:06 AM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (9 handed) converter

SB (t8067)
Hero (t4725)
UTG (t4640)
UTG+1 (t2755)
MP1 (t10140)
MP2 (t1718)
MP3 (t6785)
CO (t9565)
Button (t2435)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 raises to t600, 2 folds, CO calls t600, 2 folds, Hero calls t400.

Flop: (t1900) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, CO bets t800, Hero raises to t2600, MP1 folds, CO folds.

Final Pot: t5300

Exitonly · #2 10-19-2005, 01:16 AM

for bluffs you need any of:
A) a good read
B) good draw
c) good chance villain missed.

Did you have any reads? Or was this just a random move?

Not sure what i think about this... i like it better vs only one villain though.

#3 10-19-2005, 01:17 AM

That's a little on the expensive side. You need them to fold almost 50% of the time. Also, it's high variance. Despite all of that, it may be +cEV. Kxxr is a pretty crappy flop, and CO betting after smooth-calling a raise preflop and getting checked to on the flop is a nice time to bluff.

#4 10-19-2005, 01:18 AM

Another thing to keep in mind is that pf raiser's check could be AK, KK, or AA on this very ugly flop, so he's not guaranteed to fold.

yabastid · #5 10-19-2005, 01:21 AM

I'll make a play like this with a solid read. With that kind of board villian has to nail the flop or have a serious draw to call and being as there is no draw he had to have nailed it. Given your stack size and check-raise on the flop I think he has to put you on a monster. I like these plays every so often- risky with your stack, but a great way to get some breathing room b/c he has to put you on something BIG.

stevepa · #6 10-19-2005, 01:22 AM

I don't like it. I think the combination of the possibilities of original PFR slowplaying and CO actually having a hand make this a poor spot to bluff.

Steve

pfkaok · #7 10-19-2005, 01:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
for bluffs you need any of:
A) a good read
B) good draw
c) good chance villain missed.

Did you have any reads? Or was this just a random move?

Not sure what i think about this... i like it better vs only one villain though.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, sorry, my first post was pretty vague. i had somewhat decent reads in that both villians had been pretty straightfoward so far, and had very conservative stats with PT.

my thinking was that the only hands that PFR would check here and not fold is KK, or maybe AA. possibly he'd check AA or AK on this undrawy board, but i thought that was pretty unlikely. and i really didn't think he could call me with QQ or less. the bettor was actually similar. i knew he could have KQ (or AK or KJs i suppose), or maybe a set, but i thouht it was way more likley that he was on either a monster (set), or a hand he would fold to a CR (bluff, or smaller pair that he thought was good after 2 checks).

i have a hard time enumerating all the hand combos and stuff while at the table, but i was fairly confident at the time that they'd both fold over 1/2, which is what i needed for the play to be good. i was just seeing if anyone thought i was being overly optimistic with the folding %'s

and i know its probably more likely that i'll get 1 villian to fold, but with 1 PFR i'm much more concerned that he'll think its a move, and look me up with a lower pair. so i dunno, maybe it cancels out a bit, but probably is still better vs. only 1.

betgo · #8 10-19-2005, 07:39 AM

I kind of like the checkraise bluff. K62,r is a classic bluffing flop. It seems unlikely anyone has a king, particularly with the weak bet. There are no possible draws.

I would fold preflop. There are two players that presumably have hands. You are getting some pot odds, but QTo is a lousy hand. You have a good chance to make a second best hand. OOP your bluffing chances are not that good.

ansky451 · #9 10-19-2005, 11:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I kind of like the checkraise bluff. K62,r is a classic bluffing flop. It seems unlikely anyone has a king, particularly with the weak bet. There are no possible draws.

I would fold preflop. There are two players that presumably have hands. You are getting some pot odds, but QTo is a lousy hand. You have a good chance to make a second best hand. OOP your bluffing chances are not that good.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree word for word basically. I like everything but the PF call.

zambonidrivr · #10 10-19-2005, 11:41 AM

fold preflop