ATo preflop - I have no idea

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Yea sorry about that. I'm just tired after a whole night of playing.

Anyway, I would put us at 3 outs, any ace. I don't count those backdoor thingies as outs, but our equity would be somewhat like 15-18% so a call would be ok.

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No problem.

I think you should reread the SSHE section on counting outs. You shouldn't count the Aces as full outs and you should take backdoor draws into account. You're losing money if you don't estimate your no. of outs correctly.

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Ok thanks. I will try this out in my next 10k hands so by the end of the week I will have a clear vision if it's worth it or not but I must say I highly doubt it.

Grunch:
Fold PF.
I sure you can dig up enough outs to call that flop bet getting 11:1.

**Grunch**

Preflop: I Fold. I'm thinking that's gotta be a seriously Negative EV hand, especially at a table where you have no reads. You have no idea what kind of maniacs are sitting behind you.

Flop: I disagree w/ your fold. In my estimation, you have 1.5 outs w/ the backdoor flush, 1 out w/ the 1 gap backdoor str8 draw, and I'd give your overcard another 1.5 outs for a total of 4 outs. You are getting 11:1 pot odds which is sufficient for a call here.

[beset7]

gr:

I've started folding ATo in the first 3 spots. I think I peel on this flop because the pot is big and we have backdoor draws galore, an overcard and maybe even the best hand.

[Nikademus]

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Preflop only. No reads, <10 hands on the table. This can not be right.

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*grunch*
I think that's pretty much how I'd play it. It's about decisions, not results. What do you have on the flop that warrants chasing the pre-flop aggressor? Backdoor straight and nut-flush possibilities? Not worth it.

[Coolidge]

Not arguing, just curious why raising ATo is so terrible?

[@bsolute_luck]

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Not arguing, just curious why raising ATo is so terrible?

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it's not. people are just voicing their personal opinions seemingly without consideration of anything but the 2 cards in front of them.

[Xhad]

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Don't raise this from UTG. Maybe in higher limits.

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In higher limits? Wouldn't this basically result in stealing the blinds or being dominated?

To OP: I'd rather not play ATo from EP with no reads because I don't like not knowing where I am when I flop a pair, though limping's probably borderline in micros.

EDIT: You're right that KJo is in a similar spot; the top pair always makes 3rd best kicker, the bottom pair is always vulnerable to exactly two overcards, though KJo has better straight potential (and less vulnerable to reverse domination) while ATo can make top pair with no overcards possible. KQo on the other hand is a lot better because it's top pairs are both TP2K and only the A can come to make an overpair. I'm glad you mentioned this because for some reason I was under the impression that KJo is "much" better than ATo but now that I think about it they're probably close to the same; I may start folding KJo more often when I'm new to the table.