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  #31  
Old 12-03-2005, 09:41 PM
AlanBostick AlanBostick is offline
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Default Re: chess and poker

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Iíve seen GM Walter Browne playing 8-16 at Bellagio.

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Walter is a prop player at the Oaks Club in Emeryville, California. He's a fixture in the Oaks' 15-30 hold'em game during the graveyard shift. He's a good player and a nice guy. I like playing with him, however much I don't like having a player as good as he is in the game.
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  #32  
Old 12-03-2005, 10:21 PM
AlanBostick AlanBostick is offline
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Default Re: What is the link between poker and backgammon/chess/bridge?

The connection between poker and the other games is that poker provides an opportunity for dedicated game-players to earn something resembling a steady income. Anyone with half a brain can learn enough about poker to beat the locally available games. It's a lot tougher to make a living hustling at chess than poker. I imagine it's tougher to make a living at backgammon, too. I have no idea if it's even possible to make a living playing bridge.

A player who is devoting her life to her game and needs to make ends meet, working flexible hours, earning perhaps enough to get by rather than needing middle-class comfort, could play poker for a night or two each week and spend the rest of her time focussing on the game where her real passion lies.
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  #33  
Old 12-04-2005, 12:41 PM
cognito20 cognito20 is offline
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Default Re: What is the link between poker and backgammon/chess/bridge?

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I don't think anyone seriously considers Woolsey a top 10 in the world bridge player. I don't know about backgammon.

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Kit Woolsey is almost certainly considered one of the top 10 backgammon players in the world, as well as one of the game's most recognized and trusted authorities, along with Robertie and X-22. Don't know about his abilities in bridge, although he's certainly very good.

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I was not aware that Harrington had won a world championship in backgammon. If that is true, I would consider him in Eisenberg's class.

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Well, not the "World Championship" (Monte Carlo) per se, but the "World Cup" (Dallas), which is considered by backgammon aficionados to be much tougher to win than the world championship (in the championship flight, EVERY MATCH is best 3-out-of-5 matches to 11 points, and even the consolation and last-chance flights are matches to 29 and 25 points, respectively). Robertie and X-22 have both won the Monte Carlo event (Robertie's won it twice), while Harrington has won the Dallas event (Robertie and X-22 may also have won it, can't remember off the top of my head).

Speaking of Magriel, where is he in this conversation? One of the greatest backgammon players of all time, indisputably, as well as a very good-to-great tournament poker player, and a chess master as well.

--Scott
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  #34  
Old 12-05-2005, 03:50 AM
Siegmund Siegmund is offline
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Default Re: What is the link between poker and backgammon/chess/bridge?

Lot of good answers in this thread so far. To briefly, reiterate some highlights: the doubling cube in backgammon is a whooole lot like raise/fold decisions in poker; bluffing is overrated in popular opinion of poker, and underrated in bridge; all three games have a big element of estimating chances of things on the fly.

And then there's there is the one REALLY big point, which AlanBostick has finally touched on:

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The connection between poker and the other games is that poker provides an opportunity for dedicated game-players to earn something resembling a steady income.


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Biinnnnngo. Poker is where da money is at.

I've been giving bridge lessons for almost ten years, directed at a local club for awhile, etc etc, known regionally as an expert but not nationally -- and, in my best season, bridge was 10% of my income. If I lived in a big city, it could have been maybe 25%.

And six months after I played my first hand of 25/50 cent limit poker on the internet, I was making more money from poker than I ever had from bridge. I am no expert at poker yet; I don't honestly think the game is anything close to as much fun as bridge and backgammon are. But it's not a bad way to spend the evenings I don't have a bridge game, and the money is nice.

Take a look in your history books, folks. Bridge was where the money was at in the 1950s, and backgammon in the 70s. Look no further for an explanation for why the bridge pros got good at backgammon then, and why the backgammon pros are getting good at poker now.



Incidentally ... about the analogy between SnG strategy and a chess game. Interesting thing. I've never been able to stand chess. Feels like a big boring game of tic-tac-toe to me, honestly. Just a matter of taste.

In bridge I prefer duplicate to rubber, and matchpoint to IMP scoring, because it puts every deal on an equal footing. It is no coincidence that I like limit better than NL, and ring games better than tournaments -- formats where a few big hands determine the outcome of the whole event.
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  #35  
Old 12-05-2005, 07:30 AM
Shandrax Shandrax is offline
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Default Re: chess and poker

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Iíve seen GM Walter Browne playing 8-16 at Bellagio.

[/ QUOTE ]

Walter is a prop player at the Oaks Club in Emeryville, California. He's a fixture in the Oaks' 15-30 hold'em game during the graveyard shift. He's a good player and a nice guy. I like playing with him, however much I don't like having a player as good as he is in the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's how many chess pros make their money these days. Actually I picked up poker after GM Gustafsson mentioned this trend on ICC.
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  #36  
Old 12-05-2005, 12:12 PM
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Default Re: What is the link between poker and backgammon/chess/bridge?

[ QUOTE ]
Kit Woolsey is almost certainly considered one of the top 10 backgammon players in the world, as well as one of the game's most recognized and trusted authorities, along with Robertie and X-22. Don't know about his abilities in bridge, although he's certainly very good.

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Woolsey is a notch below world class/top 10 type in bridge. He's very good -- has won national championships -- but not quite amongst the elite in the world. Like in backgammon, he is a trusted authority and valued author. Perhaps not labeling him as great in both was overly harsh.

His wife, Sally, is also quite good at both bridge and backgammon, isn't she?
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  #37  
Old 12-05-2005, 08:35 PM
Skipbidder Skipbidder is offline
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Default Re: What is the link between poker and backgammon/chess/bridge?

[ QUOTE ]
Woolsey is a notch below world class/top 10 type in bridge. He's very good -- has won national championships -- but not quite amongst the elite in the world. Like in backgammon, he is a trusted authority and valued author. Perhaps not labeling him as great in both was overly harsh.


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I'm uncomfortable with the idea that only the top ten bridge players in the world are "world class". Off the top of my head, among American players, I would list Hamman, Wolff, Soloway, Berkowitz, L. Cohen, Martel, Stansby, Meckstroth, Rodwell, Rosenberg. Those are just US players. Any list of world class players that doesn't include all of them is a bad list. There are many players who probably warrant consideration for that list as well (this is just off the top of my head). It didn't include multiple world champion Mike Lawrence, for example.

Woolsey, at very least, has a second in a Bermuda Bowl and a first in the Rosenblum Teams. He wrote THE book on matchpoints, and it continues to be the best book available on the subject despite being written over 20 years ago. Since he is a matchpoint theorist, I'd look to how he did at matchpoints events. He has won the Cavendish invitational at least twice, with different partners!

I'm not current with the US qualifiers for the next Bermuda Bowl. My current issue of the Bridge World does have Kit still playing on one of the final four teams vying for a spot.

If David Sklansky is a world class poker player, then Kit Woolsey is a world class bridge player.
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  #38  
Old 12-22-2005, 12:11 PM
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Default Re: What is the link between poker and backgammon/chess/bridge?

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If David Sklansky is a world class poker player,

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, I suppose that one is up for debate, too!
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