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#2
09-14-2005, 06:55 PM
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Re: Simple KK preflop.
If you push preflop you give him a chance to fold and you will still lose the hand if he outflops you. Better just to call and check it to him where he will be guaranteed to put it all in no matter what. Sure, you give a 'free' card to AT to catch an ace (he only paid $60 for it when you could have charged him more). But he might just be completely bluffing in which case he will fold if you push but push if you check it to him. And if he isn't completely bluffing, he will call your push anyways and the best hand will win at showdown anyways.
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#3
09-15-2005, 07:28 AM
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Re: Simple KK preflop.
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Svar till:</font><hr />
If you push preflop you give him a chance to fold and you will still lose the hand if he outflops you. Better just to call and check it to him where he will be guaranteed to put it all in no matter what. Sure, you give a 'free' card to AT to catch an ace (he only paid $60 for it when you could have charged him more). But he might just be completely bluffing in which case he will fold if you push but push if you check it to him. And if he isn't completely bluffing, he will call your push anyways and the best hand will win at showdown anyways. [/ QUOTE ] He only has to win this hand 35% of the time or so if you push, so I doubt a hand like AT hand will fold here.
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#5
09-14-2005, 07:25 PM
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Re: Simple KK preflop.
[ QUOTE ]
calling seems wrong for a couple of reasons, you give a worse hand to outdraw you for "free" and what do u do on an ace high flop? I think u have to either move in or muck, /w no reads i push. [/ QUOTE ] Check out this thread for a good read. Was only one raise in this thread but it seems very similar. Limon on KK facing big raise PF .
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#6
09-14-2005, 07:51 PM
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Re: Simple KK preflop.
Nice link, limon is awesome.
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#7
09-14-2005, 06:21 PM
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Re: Simple KK preflop.
I was at the table when this happened. The guy was a donk and had done plenty of questionable things. Maybe you hadn't been there long enough to see them, but folding was terrible. When you folded, I figured you must have had A-K or J-J or something and just didn't want ot risk it. Unless you have a solid read, I think you call this just about every single time. And against this particular guy, you should have called.
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#8
09-15-2005, 02:15 AM
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Re: Simple KK preflop.
[ QUOTE ]
I was at the table when this happened. The guy was a donk and had done plenty of questionable things. Maybe you hadn't been there long enough to see them, but folding was terrible. [/ QUOTE ] Ok, I was four-tabling also, so I might have missed something. Assuming he's a LAG donk, I wouldn't have folded if I'd noticed. Against a random opponent, I think this is Aces a majority of the time in this game -- the fold was still an extremely tough decision, obviously. As for what to do besides folding, why not push? If he's dumb enough to do that w/ QQ, AK, etc., do you really think he's folding for $150 more? I don't like calling at all. If an Ace flops, it might scare me off the best hand or scare him off of a worse one.
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#9
09-15-2005, 07:33 AM
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Re: Simple KK preflop.
In my opinion, KK getting reraised huge at this level is USUALLY up against AA. Definitely not always, but very often. I would say around 70-80% according to my experience. Sure, you might be a favourite in this spot, but I think the chance that you are a big dog is higher. Couldn't you throw this one away and wait for a better spot where you are more certain about being a favourite than pretty much taking a very uncertain gamble for your entire stack? It is weak, yes, but at this level I don't think you really need to take every shot of being a favourite since your opponents make so many other mistakes you can explore.
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#10
09-15-2005, 08:43 AM
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Re: Simple KK preflop.
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Svar på:</font><hr />
I don't think you really need to take every shot of being a favourite since your opponents make so many other mistakes you can explore. [/ QUOTE ] Exploit? This is flawed logic anyway. Sure you don't need to take every shot of being a favourite. If you want to win only half as much for example, I suggest you take about half of them. I'm not so sure folding was incorrect here against an unknown. This is AA very often. I will call and check raise all-in on the flop, but it's probably marginally +EV at best. (I still think it's +EV, so I'd do it.) To the poster who said "Would you have made this large of a raise with AA": Would you ever have made this this large of a raise without AA?
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