No limit newbie basics. Help me out here.

[jedi]

So, I'm just starting out in no limit, and I'm enjoying it. I have some seemingly basic questions to ask though. The game I play is the .50/1 blind NL game at Poker Stars.

1) The Buy-in. I bought in for $25 and have been told that this is really too little. Part of the reason is that it limits my loss, but it also limits my gains. Should I be buying in for the max $100, or would $50 be okay? Part of the reason I only bought in for $25 relates to number 2.

2) All-in bets and playing scared. The reason I didn't play NL earlier is that I was afraid to make a big mistake and lose my entire stack. Should I not be afraid to put in my entire stack when I don't have the nuts? Facing all-in bets without the nuts can be a problem for me. That's part of the reason I don't like to buy in for the max, for fear that it can all disappear in one hand. How should I adjust to this?

3) Bet sizes. When I've raised, it's usually been for $3 preflop (too little)?. If there are more than 1 limper, I'll make it more. This assumes I have a high pocket pair or AK or AQ. On the flop, if I intend to raise, it will be close to the size of the pot. Otherwise, chasers will have pretty damn good odds to draw. Min-raising is a big mistake, right? This morning, UTG min-raised to $2, then proceeded to berate the button when he caught his flush with 46s ("I raised pre-flop, he shouldn't have been in the hand" among other things). I thought to myself that he should have raised more, because calling $2 to potentially win $50 wasn't a mistake.

4) Post flop play. I raised with KK in late position, and an Ace fell on the flop. With about $10 in the pot, MP led out for $10. I folded. Was I wussing out? I really didn't want to risk my whole stack to see if he was bluffing me.

5) Playing drawing hands. On the other side of the coin, if I have a good drawing hand (to nut flush or nut straight), how much of a bet must I be facing to fold? I HATE calling an all-in raise with just a drawing hand, and am reluctant to bet all-in to try to push someone off a hand (even if I have outs). I think part of this is table dependent. On a passive table, I should just see the next card as cheap as I can and bet agressively if I make my hand. On the other hand, if it's a table willing to fold and I have a big pot in front of me, I might push in if I have enough outs.

Anyways, that's just my thoughts from just a couple of sessions. Can someone help clarify/correct some of those thoughts?

[gavrilo]

I'm gonna address 1 issue of your post and that is the buying in for 1/4 max and being scared to lose your stack.

If this is the case, why do you not just play the $25max tables and move up when you are comfortable?

[Fistdantilus]

Your money is your weapon; don't leave home without it. If you have a problem with losing your whole stack, then drop down in limits instead of playing with a tiny stack. Stack size is a very important aspect of NL, and you need to learn the implications. Here's a good starter: Natedoggs post.

As far as bet sizes and post flop play, you'll learn that in time. The only consistent advice I can give is that the vast majority of opponents are not tricky enough to check-raise with anything less than a great hand, so having position on the field is stupidly important.

Drawing hands are tricky. Since you are new to NL, I would suggest not playing str8/flush draws until you get used to the rest of the game. Play str8-flush draws and pair+flush draws quite strongly (assuming the board isn't paired).

And lastly, TPTK is a weak hand: try not to go broke with it.

Fistdantilus

[jedi]

I guess the issue is how to play better so I don't lose my stack. Moving down is certainly the best option, but of course I could lose my whole stack down there as well.

The main question then is:
What are the major mistakes that could cause me to lose my stack? Betting too much with TPTK is one it seems, but what are some other bonehead ideas? All-in with 2nd nut flush? Idiot end of the straight?

[ QUOTE ]
I'm gonna address 1 issue of your post and that is the buying in for 1/4 max and being scared to lose your stack.

If this is the case, why do you not just play the $25max tables and move up when you are comfortable?

[/ QUOTE ]

[jedi]

Update: I've only read 2 paragraphs of the post you recommended and it's absolutely making things more clear in my mind. I'm sure the rest of it will only help me.

Other notes. Position seems to be more important in NL than in limit. Also, I don't think I should try bluffing at the stakes I play at. Seems like ABC poker will work well here. I just have to figure out what ABC means in NL opposed to limit.

[tewall]

1) Small buy-in is fine, better than a large buy-in, until you get comforatable. You can't play scared, so keep the buy-in small enough to where it's an amount you feel comfortable losing.

The reason a high buy-in is better is it gives you much more of a chance to out-play your opponents, assuming you play better than they do. However, the strategy with a small buy-in is very straight-forward and easy to implement. Just go for a TPTK type hand, or so, and get all-in on the flop if you hit it. Play big cards. Don't play out of position unless you have a really solid hand. Assuming you choose good tables, that should work fine. You want to take advantage of the multitude of players that play too many hands and will chase you.

Playing with a large stack is more difficult than player a smaller one, so starting with smaller stacks is a valueable learning experience, IMO.

2) [ QUOTE ]
Should I not be afraid to put in my entire stack when I don't have the nuts?

[/ QUOTE ]

Good heavens, no! There's no way you can play NL like this. (waiting for the nuts). You have to learn what types of hands are worth committing your stack to, which is very dependent on the opponents and the stack sizes, but unless the stacks are quite large and the opposition absolutely horrible, you have to be willing to get your stack in there without the nuts.

3) Bet and raise the pot always. That will work fine starting out.

4) Wussing out is O.K. The way to make money is to make strong hands cheaply and bet them strongly when you make them. You really need to know the opponent to know how to play in a given situation, but you'll have better chances than the one you were facing. The fact that you had previously raised the guy, and he still bet into you, makes it likely that he had you beat. If not, so what? Wait for a better situation.

5) If you're playing with a small stack, if you didn't play any drawing hands at all, it wouldn't hurt you. Play them if they are incidental to your big card strength. An exception would be if you are in last position and can get in for the minimum. Don't play them out of position unless it's free.

This advice is conservative, I know, but I think it will serve you well starting out.

Final advice: get "Big Bet Poker" by Ciaffone and Reuben. That will help you in your thinking about the game.

[Fistdantilus]

[ QUOTE ]
Other notes. Position seems to be more important in NL than in limit. Also, I don't think I should try bluffing at the stakes I play at. Seems like ABC poker will work well here. I just have to figure out what ABC means in NL opposed to limit.

[/ QUOTE ]

What I was trying to say was that position is ridiculously important because if they check to you and you're last to act, you can bet with little fear of a raise (or even a solid hand calling). Bet the pot, and they fold. You'd be surprised. But simply getting it all-in with only the nuts works too.

Fistdantilus

[tewall]

How important position is depend on the size of the stacks in relation to the blinds. As the stack sizes shorten, postition becomes less important. If the stacks are large, then you are quite right, position is even more important than limit (where it is already very important). Many players underestimate the importance of position.

The comment about bluffing is right on too. Most common mistakes will be calling too often. You can look for exceptions (when bluffing would be good), but, in general, that's not going to be a winning strategy in low limit NL.

[turnipmonster]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess the issue is how to play better so I don't lose my stack. Moving down is certainly the best option, but of course I could lose my whole stack down there as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

one thing you are going to need to come to terms with quickly is you are going to lose your stack. many, many, many times. big bet players play stakes so that they can afford to lose their buyin and it's not a big deal at all. if you are learning big bet, do yourself a favor and have at least 8 buyins for the game you are playing.

I used to worry about this too, everyone does when starting out. A real turning point for me was talking to a big bet pro, who had a good laugh with me when I asked him how many times he had busted out recently. going bust is just a fact of life, so don't worry about it, just rebuy and keep getting your chips in with the best of it.

or, if you're playing me lately, just get your chips in with the worst of it and you'll probably suck out [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

--turnipmonster

[Ootz]

[ QUOTE ]
The main question then is:
What are the major mistakes that could cause me to lose my stack? Betting too much with TPTK is one it seems, but what are some other bonehead ideas? All-in with 2nd nut flush? Idiot end of the straight?


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm picking up NL myself, and though I'm doing so-so, I can tell you the two biggest mistakes I've made so far that have kept my win rate from being "great":

1) Overplaying AK when it totally misses (did that one time, haven't done that again), even when you preflop raise big and have people betting into you on a Q high flop.

2) Trying to play too aggressive on scary boards (i.e. I preflop raise with TT late and the flop comes a low 3 of the same suit which I don't have). I guess I did this because I didn't want to be pushed around and bluffed out, but then again, both times I called the guy down, the scary board sure hit him. This is hard for me because I don't want to be pushed around because the board looks scary, and I've caught people bluffing at me before, so maybe I'm just paranoid. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

I'll draw to straights and flushes if I can do so cheaply (which sometimes isn't that hard at low NL) and I'm at least 95% certain that my hand will be good if it makes and that I will get action if I hit it. I won't draw to bottom ends of straights, and I usually won't draw to a single gutshot unless I can get there really cheap.