5/10 high.. 3rd street action

[BeerMoney]

Seat 8 was loose, and seat 3 was retarded.. What's your play?

7 Card Stud High ($5/$10), Ante $0.50, Bring-In $2 (hand converter)

3rd Street - (0.70 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 3: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 4: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___?????
Seat 6: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 7: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Seat 8: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___completes___calls

[Roland]

I’d 3-bet.
You are risking $10 to maybe get it heads-up. If he has aces you lose a fraction of that $10. If he calls you with an under pair, you win some. If he folds, you gain tremendously.

[MRBAA]

The key is that seat 3 is a moron. Because that reraise of an ace by a decent player is scary. If seat 3 is an idiot and seat 8 can have many hands other than split aces to complete here, than by all means, three bet.

[beta1607]

I think you have to raise here.

I say call.

Even crazy players can get aces or be rolled up. Now that may not be the case because of the tendency of those players to bet recklessly, which is why you are not folding.

But to me, the choice is between calling or folding and I have chosen calling becasue of the wildness of the other 2. If you raise, I don't think anyone is folding, so the raise for that purpose is wasted. You will be creating too large a pot when it is not clear that you have the best hand. In fact, you could be in third place here. It is only the uncertainty and that your cards are still live that allows you to continue with this hand.

Call and observe. If they start to show weakiness on the later rounds, then you can take the lead of the hand. You could also consider, after seeing the cards dealt on 4th, to raise if the ace bets and the ten calls. And that raise will be more for information than anything else. You have to at some point try to see where you stand in this hand, but raising on third, I don't think will give you information; a 4th street raise might.

[Roland]

[ QUOTE ]
If you raise, I don't think anyone is folding, so the raise for that purpose is wasted.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, you weren’t get him to fold very often. But I do think he folds SOMETIMES; maybe 10% of the time or so. We’ve all seen people complete with junk like 78Ao and the like. If he’s got something like that, he’ll probably fold.
And those few times he folds, you really gain a lot.

[ QUOTE ]
You will be creating too large a pot when it is not clear that you have the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I considered this too. It’s true that the ace will often call or re-raise and then you’ll be stuck in huge pot and weren’t be able to fold (unless one of them pairs there door).
As I see it, though, against these two, aren’t be folding anyway. Even if the pot is smaller you’re not folding this.
That said, calling isn’t bad. I just think raising is a bit better.


[ QUOTE ]
You could also consider, after seeing the cards dealt on 4th, to raise if the ace bets and the ten calls. And that raise will be more for information than anything else. You have to at some point try to see where you stand in this hand, but raising on third, I don't think will give you information; a 4th street raise might.

[/ QUOTE ]


So, suppose he 3-bets. What are you gonna do with that information? Fold?
Or suppose he just calls. Does that mean he can’t have aces?

[MRBAA]

In general, I agree that this is the right way to play maniacs. But hidden kings is a might strong hand here against a moron and a loose goose. I'm raising for value.

[Bartholow]

Yeah sometimes I think we stud players are too obsessed with raising to knock people out, and I KNOW some are too obsessed with raising for information. Value is the best reason to raise.