Double Shoot out Bust out Hand for Analysis - Page 2

Ulysses · #11 03-23-2005, 04:03 AM

I have a problem with your turn bet. You've already shown weakness once by underbetting the flop. Well, either that was weakness or you sucking him in a little. He doesn't know. But now you underbet again. Hmmmm.... Well, maybe he thinks it looks like a good place to take a shot. And you know that. So, even though it looks like a big hand (since you were PFR and now he's coming to life after you bet the K), you have doubt in your mind and don't feel good about folding. And he hasn't raised enough to make you certain that he's committed.

Because of all that, having played it the way you did up to that point, I would bet something like 250 or 275 on the turn. It's just a few more chips, but potentially garners much more information. If he now fires back at me with a healthy raise, I feel like I can much more confidently lay down this hand given the action and there's a better chance that he'll give you more information regarding his level of commitment based on his action.

Prime Time · #12 03-23-2005, 10:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I have a problem with your turn bet. You've already shown weakness once by underbetting the flop. Well, either that was weakness or you sucking him in a little. He doesn't know. But now you underbet again. Hmmmm.... Well, maybe he thinks it looks like a good place to take a shot. And you know that. So, even though it looks like a big hand (since you were PFR and now he's coming to life after you bet the K), you have doubt in your mind and don't feel good about folding. And he hasn't raised enough to make you certain that he's committed.

Because of all that, having played it the way you did up to that point, I would bet something like 250 or 275 on the turn. It's just a few more chips, but potentially garners much more information. If he now fires back at me with a healthy raise, I feel like I can much more confidently lay down this hand given the action and there's a better chance that he'll give you more information regarding his level of commitment based on his action.

[/ QUOTE ]

Under betting the pot? Weakness?
I bet more than 50%. Typical bet, to make flush draw go for incorrect odds.

Turn bet... I Bet 180 into a 310 pot. Same as above, not giving Flush draw correct odds to draw, but betting value.

Your response to the turn action, I completely concur w/ you.

Thanks for your analysis as I truly value you input.

Thanks

Ulysses · #13 03-23-2005, 02:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Under betting the pot? Weakness?
I bet more than 50%. Typical bet, to make flush draw go for incorrect odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whether or not it is true for you, with these stack sizes when you bet 80 into a 150 pot after raising to 60 preflop, most players will put you on either a miss like AK, a medium pair smaller than top pair, or consider the fact that maybe you have a set. Very few will put you on something like AA.

In this scenario, w/ these stacks, is 80 into a 150 pot really your standard bet if you have AA here?

[ QUOTE ]
Turn bet... I Bet 180 into a 310 pot. Same as above, not giving Flush draw correct odds to draw, but betting value.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he calls here and the river is a small heart, what is your plan?

dtbog · #14 03-23-2005, 02:37 PM

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If he calls here and the river is a small heart, what is your plan?

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This sentence doesn't rhyme.

-DB

MLG · #15 03-23-2005, 02:38 PM

I think checking-calling the turn has a lot of merit here. It looks like you giving up on a miss, so villain might try to pick up the pot with hands you beat, and it saves you money when you're buried.

Ulysses · #16 03-23-2005, 02:45 PM

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I think checking-calling the turn has a lot of merit here. It looks like you giving up on a miss, so villain might try to pick up the pot with hands you beat, and it saves you money when you're buried.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that this line is a very reasonable one except against solid opponents who are so aggressive that they will always auto-fire two barrels if you check here. Auto-fire robots are not so much of a problem.

jd2b2006 · #17 03-23-2005, 02:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think checking-calling the turn has a lot of merit here. It looks like you giving up on a miss, so villain might try to pick up the pot with hands you beat, and it saves you money when you're buried.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like the reasoning behind this line, but what is your plan on the river if a heart comes up? Or if it is a blank?

MLG · #18 03-23-2005, 02:49 PM

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I agree that this line is a very reasonable one except against solid opponents who are so aggressive that they will always auto-fire two barrels if you check here. Auto-fire robots are not so much of a problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

sorry, huh?

Prime Time · #19 03-23-2005, 03:14 PM

I totally agree w/ you.
Unfortunately I have trouble going into that gear there, w/ the two hearts on board.
Can you?

Ulysses · #20 03-23-2005, 03:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I agree that this line is a very reasonable one except against solid opponents who are so aggressive that they will always auto-fire two barrels if you check here. Auto-fire robots are not so much of a problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

sorry, huh?

[/ QUOTE ]

I initially had lumped two groups together in a sentence, then was sloppy when expanding my initial general statement into two different categories. "always auto-fire" should be changed to "are capable of firing again."

I'll outline it a little more clearly. Let's divide people into three groups here.

1: Guys who will bet once on the King but once you call will be very wary.

2: Guys who robotically just fire at the pot when you check with any random garbage.

3: Guys who are solid players and will take advantage of weakness by betting the appropriate amounts on appropriate cards/boards. They are not afraid to fire another barrel, but they won't always do it.

Against 1 & 2, I think your check-call line works well. Against 3 I am less of a fan.