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  #1  
Old 12-18-2005, 02:52 PM
Mercman572 Mercman572 is offline
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Default Anxiety for First B&M

Hey guys, I'll be playing live in a casino for the first time next week. Typically I play online (.5/1 6m NL if it's important) because I'm not 21 yet, but I'll be going to the Dominican at a resort where the legal age is 18. Since I've never played in a caino, or much live either for that matter, I'm a little nervous and don't know how best to attack this transition. So I've got a few questions, I'm sorry if they've been answered but I dind't see them in the FAQ and my search results didn't really yield anything.

Importance of tells: I am paranoid that my mannerisms/expressions will give away my hand, and that I will no longer be able to notice it when my opponents do this as well. For the purpose of a (hopefully) good game, need I be concerned with more than simply viewing my hole cards in a consistent manner and controlling the hand shake? I feel that this probably won't be an issue, but just want to see how alert of it I should be. Last time I played live I was totally unaware of anyone else's reactions. I've read Caro's book but just haven't been able to focus.

Sitting down: I'm adequately rolled for 200NL, but have never played it. It's my understanding from these forums that live games are generally much softer than internet games (even party I hear!). I also hear the rake is much higher in small stakes live games. For those reasons I'm assuming I should sit as high as I can without the bet sizes/ roll limitation restricting the effectiveness of my play due to psychological effects. Is this logic valid?

Moving up: I have also heard that many vacationers play a small game, and when they double up will try a bigger table. The reasons they do it are likely just to try to gambooool it up, but can this be a legitimate strategy or is it just more likely to eat away winnings? For example, if I'm at a $200 and win a $300 pot, would I be a fool for giving the 500 game a shot? I think this most likely depends on my own comfort, but if I have a 4500 roll after that win, is it just a baad idea to try this even if I'm comfortable? I would not rebuy at this level if I lost even as a favorite, so is that enough reason not to try it?


Thanks for reading this, I don't know how interesting it is to anyone else, and I'm sorry if this is redundant. I have just been thinking about this alot lately and feel that my biggest problem would be the timidness of sitting at a live game and at a b igger game than I normally play. I'm hoping to hear some words of reasurance or tips to help me enter this situation in a way that makes me feel a bit more comfortable. Thanks alot.
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  #2  
Old 12-18-2005, 03:22 PM
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Default Re: Anxiety for First B&M

You're probably going to get a lot of good advice here and some not so good. The only thing I'd like to offer is to let this be a learning experience. B&M has to be experienced first hand. IMO, it can't be explained - quickly or simply.

Relax and have fun. If you don't come across as a wise azz, know-it-all, most at the table(s) will probably be patient and helpful. As will the dealers. (don't forget to toke!)

Nobody wants to hear about your online experience/success(es). Nobody wants to be called a donk because they don't know/understand pot odds, EV, or whatever. Some do and some don't.

I've never been where you'll be playing so I don't know the average age. I'm guessing you'll be the youngest. No matter how much you know or how many hands you've played, there just may be a guy or two who knows a tad more about the game than you.

Don't worry about tells. Be aware of what you do and how you're playing. Notice the play of the others. If they change because of a play you've made, think back - you may have done something they caught.

Let them know it's your first time. They'll think you're dead money. You can use that in your favor. Your play can do all the talking needed. Wouldn't hurt to tell someone, "Nice hand," when it actually was. And saying, "I got lucky," whether you did or not, won't hurt, either.

Have fun and g/l.

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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  #3  
Old 12-18-2005, 03:24 PM
ThinkQuick ThinkQuick is offline
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Default Re: Anxiety for First B&M

My first reply using the Quick Reply feature: (cuz I don't have too much time.. will comment on the rest later if noone else does)

so, a few points

1) read the FAQ stickied at the top of this forum, I think it is excellent

2) try to do the same thing everytime, and if it takes ALL of your concentration of course you can still do fine. Hopefully however you will be able to get an impression of whether other players are looking interested/disinterested, staring at you, reaching for chips, etc. cuz it only improves the information you have (if you use it correctly).

3) I would suggest sitting at lower stakes first in all cases, so you become familiar with the way the game is run. Knowledge of some rules may be neccesary to protet yourself.

4) Are you sure your Dominican resort spreads a variety of poker games? I mean our entire city of ~1 million only spreads 3/6limit and 1/2nl (200NL i guess) except for the occasional weekend 10/20 game - very rarely above that, and never below.
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  #4  
Old 12-18-2005, 03:27 PM
DrewOnTilt DrewOnTilt is offline
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Posts: 173
Default Re: Anxiety for First B&M

[ QUOTE ]
Importance of tells: I am paranoid that my mannerisms/expressions will give away my hand, and that I will no longer be able to notice it when my opponents do this as well. For the purpose of a (hopefully) good game, need I be concerned with more than simply viewing my hole cards in a consistent manner and controlling the hand shake? I feel that this probably won't be an issue, but just want to see how alert of it I should be. Last time I played live I was totally unaware of anyone else's reactions. I've read Caro's book but just haven't been able to focus.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't waste your time on this. It is the rare player at low limit holdem games that can pick up on tells. Focus on improving your game skills instead.

[ QUOTE ]
Sitting down: I'm adequately rolled for 200NL, but have never played it. It's my understanding from these forums that live games are generally much softer than internet games (even party I hear!). I also hear the rake is much higher in small stakes live games. For those reasons I'm assuming I should sit as high as I can without the bet sizes/ roll limitation restricting the effectiveness of my play due to psychological effects. Is this logic valid?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, sounds good to me, but remember to consider the overall table atmosphere. A $100 max buyin table full of rebuying donks with lots of chips on the table is better than a $200 max buyin table full of rocks with nothing more than the minimum stack.

[ QUOTE ]
Moving up: I have also heard that many vacationers play a small game, and when they double up will try a bigger table. The reasons they do it are likely just to try to gambooool it up, but can this be a legitimate strategy or is it just more likely to eat away winnings? For example, if I'm at a $200 and win a $300 pot, would I be a fool for giving the 500 game a shot? I think this most likely depends on my own comfort, but if I have a 4500 roll after that win, is it just a baad idea to try this even if I'm comfortable?

[/ QUOTE ]

The decision on whether or not to move to a bigger game should be made based on your bankroll size as well as your self confidence. I've slowly moved up from 2-4 to 20-40 limit games over the past year and a half as my skill has grown. Give the bigger games a go if you have the roll and feel good about yourself.

That being said...

[ QUOTE ]
I would not rebuy at this level if I lost even as a favorite, so is that enough reason not to try it?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're not prepared to go bust then you have no reason sitting down at the game in the first place.

Last night at a live 20/40 game I took my biggest loss ever in terms of raw dollar amount. The game was deliciously retarded, but I kept getting spanked by the table maniac. It was ROUGH. But I expected this to happen at some point, and after I lick my wounds a bit I'll be right back at it, same level. If you can't approach a game with this mindset, don't sit.
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  #5  
Old 12-18-2005, 03:34 PM
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Default Re: Anxiety for First B&M

I picked up the game in the spring and since I work close to AC I started going down once a month for the heck of it in September. (Been profitable, too.) I know how you feel - you don't want to make a fool of yourself out of ignorance but you know what you are doing in the game itself. Don't be so worried, I guarantee you that you'll witness people being dumber than you could ever manage.

You have the tells part dead on. Make looking at your hole cards and your betting actions habitual and repetetive, whether you have AA or 72. Otherwise don't get yourself distracted too much with tells and play your game. You'll know when you are comfortable enough to add that to your task list on each hand.

Take a deep breath before you make action if you feel shaky hands syndrome. I guarantee you won't be able to control it on the first pot you think you are winning, but it'll become more comfortable after that.

DON'T STARE AT THE FLOP WHEN IT COMES. Look at the other player's reactions first, then check the cards. They aren't changing so there is no hurry to look at them.

I've got no advice on changing limits as I am solely a tournament player. I'd figure you want to stay at whatever stakes you are winning at and just keep winning, but that's just me.

Listen to the dealer. If you breach the rules of conduct they'll make sure you know. You are pretty much given two chances: one is a soft warning and the next is stern. As long as you heed the soft warning, nobody will have any problem with you. If you don't heed the stern warning, you have trouble.
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  #6  
Old 12-18-2005, 06:39 PM
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Default Re: Anxiety for First B&M

Here are some good videos to pick up on others' tells from the great Mike Caro. As for your own play, nobody will pay attention to what you're doing/playing, just like online!

http://www.poker1.com/mcu/mculib_video.asp
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  #7  
Old 12-18-2005, 06:55 PM
Mercman572 Mercman572 is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 261
Default Re: Anxiety for First B&M

Thanks everybody for the replies so far

[ QUOTE ]

4) Are you sure your Dominican resort spreads a variety of poker games? I mean our entire city of ~1 million only spreads 3/6limit and 1/2nl (200NL i guess) except for the occasional weekend 10/20 game - very rarely above that, and never below.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know how many different games they will offer, they don't provide their resort games on the web. I'm assuming there will be at least a very low game with high rake and a bigger game. The place is known as a vacation spot and gambling is one of the bigger attractions.
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  #8  
Old 12-18-2005, 08:01 PM
CanIPlay CanIPlay is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 25
Default Re: Anxiety for First B&M

Just announce that You are a first time Player and people will help You out.
Do not look at your cards till it is Your action. Do not talk about the hand in progress. Do not review hands other than "Well Played" or "Tough Beat".
I have been playing for 10 years, once or twice a year and it is still confusing the first time You sit down.
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  #9  
Old 12-18-2005, 09:41 PM
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Default Re: Anxiety for First B&M

I'm not replying as an expert. However, I did just go through my first B&M experience and have some advice.

1) Play the lowest buy-in limit game they offer for a half-hour. Play tight and spend you free time trying to make sure you know what's going on with the dealer button, house etiquette, table chatter, etc. A big mistake in a 3-6 limit game will cost you a few BB's. Better than making your first mistake for your whole NL buy-in. After you get comfortable with pokering in a casino, move over to your NL table.

2) Boredom becomes an issue playing live. Don't be the intense guy who kills all the fun, that's negative EV and no fun. Find something to do with your time when you're not in a hand or you'll end up with too many hands. Popular choices are chip shuffling (definitely plus EV, as the newbies will think you're a professional and the retired whiners will think you're a young punk who needs a lesson), or (more usefully) ghosting other player and guessing their hole cards before you see them.

3) From reading these forums, you would think that every other pot in a B&M cardroom has three hands declared dead, a physical altercation, and a heart attack. It's more like every fourth or fifth pot. Seriously, though . . . watch your hole cards, be vocal about your action ("I check", "I raise" etc.), and everything should be fine. If you're friendly to the table, they'll keep you in the game. If you have fun, you'll make more money too.
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  #10  
Old 12-18-2005, 10:19 PM
The Goober The Goober is offline
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Default Re: Anxiety for First B&M

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know how many different games they will offer, they don't provide their resort games on the web. I'm assuming there will be at least a very low game with high rake and a bigger game. The place is known as a vacation spot and gambling is one of the bigger attractions.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't assume anything - just because there's gambling doesn't mean there will be poker. I made this mistake on a cruise one time - since they talked so much about the casino, I thought there'd be some poker. Nope - nothing but slot machines, video poker (with a bad pay schedule), and BJ with terrible rules. You should do really do some research first, not only on what they "offer" but what games actually get going (they may say they spread 3-6, 4-8, 10-20, 200NL, 500NL, but only the 3-6 game ever actually runs). You may find that you'll want to practice up on your limit play if that's all they have.
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