Tookie, tookie, tookie... what about the victims?

[bills217]

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He cant hurt anyone else...

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Not true.

I oppose the death penalty, but in the interest of getting the facts right, he has attacked prison guards and sexually assaulted other prisoners since he's been in jail. I wonder if he included that in his children's books.

[theweatherman]

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DON"T KILL TOOKIE

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The death penalty, in some of our united states, is the law. The laws have been thru the system. The supremes have ruled on them. "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's."

We can debate/discuss it all we want but unless/until our lawmakers are convinced otherwise, it stays that way.

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Slavery was the law,
Segregation was the law,
Voting restrictions was the law,

Only through active protest can such laws be changed. A governer granting pardon to all death row inmates is exactly the type of move needed to get the ball rolling.

[vulturesrow]

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When he is dead his punishment is over, since he is going to die eventually why not keep him locked up for 40 more years and then let him die.

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Jeezus H. C., Mary and Joseph!!!!!!!

I just agreed with weatherman!!!!!!!!!

Now if I could just figure out if this means I've crossed over to the Dark Side; had a severe, and possibly terminal brain fart; pigs have begun flying and I'd best get my car in the garage; should go design me a commerative chip.

hmmmmmmm, I'm goin' with the chip idea.

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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dont worry Nut, I am with you on this one. I am very much anti-death penalty myself. I couldnt square my beliefs on abortion with supporting the death penalty so here I am. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Its not bad to visit the dark side once in a while, they have nice chocolate. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[theweatherman]

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Who are you to judge the value of any other human's life.

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I don't agree with Peter666, but all you who support abortion make that same value judgement, especially regarding partial birth abortion where a borderline viable fetus is partially delivered so that its head might be crushed.

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The death penelty and abortion are two completely seperate issues. While they both involve the destruction of life they do it forvery different reasons.

The death penalty is based on a flawed idea of justice and detterence. Because of this it is a terrible system.

Abortion advocate mostly do not believe in abortion as a form of birth control. It is not there so you can have all the sex you want consequence free. For most it is an issue of personal control over ones body (mostly females). Also there are strong elements of quality of life issues and ability to raise a child.

The base for each movement is so diametrically different that they really cannot be compared.

[BluffTHIS!]

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He cant hurt anyone else...

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Not true.

I oppose the death penalty, but in the interest of getting the facts right, he has attacked prison guards and sexually assaulted other prisoners since he's been in jail.

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This is important information. As a catholic, I too like some of the other posters here have gone to being against the death penalty in most cases as a result of Pope John Paul II's teachings, and his view, now part of our catechism, that it should not be used because society has the means to incarcerate such killers to protect itself without killing them.

But when they continue such actions even inside prison which shows that other prisoners and guards are at risk from them, then I am in favor the of death penalty being used on them. Unless those actions were solely restricted to his first few years in prison, then I would now have no qualms about his being executed if the above information is accurate.

How are we as a society better off by executing this guy? If we're seeking to punish him, what kind of punishment is killing him? He'll be dead for Christ's sake. His punishment will be over. Who are we punishing, his family? His friends? Do they deserve punishment?

Are we deterring future murders? By gang bangers or otherwise? Doubtful. There's little evidence supporting the notion that the death penalty is a deterrent. Are we rehabilitating him? Obviously not, and based upon the news accounts a reasonable argument could be made that he was somewhat rehabilitated, or at least was trying to do so to a degree.

So that leaves us with retribution. Are we killing him to make the families of the victims feel better? Is this a valid basis for punishment? If so, why not just let the families of the victims sit on the jury or decide the punishment themselves. Besides, criminal punishment is considered on a society-wide basis. We don't punish people to make 10 people happy, we do it because doing so is in society's interest. And while this board demonstrates that there are a number of people in this country with the questionable attitude that retribution is a valid basis for taking someone's life, I would venture to say that there are an equal number, if not a greater number, of people who would disagree.

So how is our interest served by this execution? When this is a person who can go, and has gone, to schools and preach about the evils of gangs?

edited to remove unnecessary introductory comment

[Peter666]

But surely the guy who killed me should not be punished as severly for killing a low life bastard like me compared to...an innocent young girl.

There are degrees of badness.

[BluffTHIS!]

You cannot make that distinction between abortion and the death penalty, even though it is clear by your comments that you impugn the motives of many who advocate abortion.

There has to be a respect and protection of life from conception to natural death, with the exceptions on the death penalty I noted in my post above, or a person's life isn't given its full value and respect, and will be subject to the whims and personal gain of others.

[theweatherman]

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But surely the guy who killed me should not be punished as severly for killing a low life bastard like me compared to...an innocent young girl.

There are degrees of badness.

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Why should he be punished more for killing a little girl? That makes no sense. If anything killing an adult is a bigger blow to society since it takes away a productive member.

your degree of badness idea is unfounded and childish, it has no place in any sort of legal system whatsoever.

[Peter666]

"your degree of badness idea is unfounded and childish, it has no place in any sort of legal system whatsoever."

That is ridiculous. Judges since the beginning of civilization have determined the length or severity of punishment depending on the degree of badness in a crime.

"If anything killing an adult is a bigger blow to society since it takes away a productive member"

Who thinks all adult members of a society are productive? Some are, some aren't and to differing degrees.

And why is it gangbangers kill each other on the streets everyday, but CNN would rather run continual coverage on the story of a kidnapped or murdered girl?