Stars 20+2, flop top and bottom 2pr, painful turn

mason55 · #1 11-30-2005, 07:57 PM

Villain had just been moved to the table a couple hands ago so I had no reads (always seems to be the problem). I hadn't been getting out of line and neither had anyone else at the table. The table had been playing passively but I don't know about villain.

Blinds 15/30
Villain is on the button with $2400, I am in the small blind with $2200.
3 limpers to me including villain, I complete with A5s, big blind checks.

Flop (Pot $150) comes AT5 rainbow, none of my suit.
I bet $100, folded to villain who calls.

Turn (Pot $350) is a K, completing the rainbow. I bet $300, villain makes it $1000.

I think this fold is much easier than it appears at first glance but I'm curious what others think.

#2 11-30-2005, 08:20 PM

The K doesn't seem to scare me. Why? Well if villain has any brains he would have raised PF with AK to eliminate a few of the 5 people in the pot. If you're beat I think it is to a set or possibly A10. If he was an idiot and was trying to slowplay AK against 5 people I would have to say more power to him. I personally have a hard time finding a fold. He could easily be thining "he is in the SB and didn't raise PF he must have a weak A to bet that flop". I may be wrong but the fool moves people make always astound me.

mason55 · #3 11-30-2005, 08:28 PM

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The K doesn't seem to scare me. Why? Well if villain has any brains he would have raised PF with AK to eliminate a few of the 5 people in the pot. If you're beat I think it is to a set or possibly A10. If he was an idiot and was trying to slowplay AK against 5 people I would have to say more power to him. I personally have a hard time finding a fold. He could easily be thining "he is in the SB and didn't raise PF he must have a weak A to bet that flop". I may be wrong but the fool moves people make always astound me.

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Your post kind of contradicts itself. If he's make a "fool move" then he could have easily limped with AK, no?

And why do you discount a set so readily? This is the perfect board to play it like this. Broadway also just hit, FWIW.

In fact, I only see 3 reasonable hands that I'm ahead of that could even think about playing like this: AQ, AJ, and KT.

ononimo · #4 11-30-2005, 08:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The K doesn't seem to scare me. Why? Well if villain has any brains he would have raised PF with AK to eliminate a few of the 5 people in the pot. If you're beat I think it is to a set or possibly A10. If he was an idiot and was trying to slowplay AK against 5 people I would have to say more power to him. I personally have a hard time finding a fold. He could easily be thining "he is in the SB and didn't raise PF he must have a weak A to bet that flop". I may be wrong but the fool moves people make always astound me.

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i don't think AK is the hand he's worried about.
besides a set or AT, the very popular QJ makes the nuts.

btw, i think it's an easy fold too.

#5 11-30-2005, 08:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The K doesn't seem to scare me. Why? Well if villain has any brains he would have raised PF with AK to eliminate a few of the 5 people in the pot. If you're beat I think it is to a set or possibly A10. If he was an idiot and was trying to slowplay AK against 5 people I would have to say more power to him. I personally have a hard time finding a fold. He could easily be thining "he is in the SB and didn't raise PF he must have a weak A to bet that flop". I may be wrong but the fool moves people make always astound me.

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i don't think AK is the hand he's worried about.
besides a set or AT, the very popular QJ makes the nuts.

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Very true. I didn't think about the str8. I'll be more observant next time. I missed it since most people probably would not have called your bet after the flop with QJ. So basically you would have folded to a raise with any paint coming on the turn or river though, right?

mason55 · #6 11-30-2005, 08:44 PM

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So basically you would have folded to a raise with any paint coming on the turn or river though, right?

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I don't even remember saying that I folded. Just that I found this to be an interesting and confusing situation at the time. After thinking about it a lot I THINK it's an easy fold but I'm curious as to what other think and will try to explain my reasoning if anyone disagrees.

#7 11-30-2005, 09:04 PM

If he has me beat it's with QJ or a set of 5's.

I find a fold hard here, but may be the best option... He could easily do that with AQ or AJ, thinking that you are betting a weaker hand.

I would hate to fold and hate to call... So I call and call his river bet and loose it all. I don't raise it here, because he doesn't fold a hand that i beat, but may bet AQ or AJ on the river.

#8 11-30-2005, 09:07 PM

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So basically you would have folded to a raise with any paint coming on the turn or river though, right?

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I don't even remember saying that I folded. Just that I found this to be an interesting and confusing situation at the time. After thinking about it a lot I THINK it's an easy fold but I'm curious as to what other think and will try to explain my reasoning if anyone disagrees.

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You didn't say that you folded, but since you find it an easy fold, I kinda assumed you did. I didn't think it's as easy as a fold as you do (maybe thats why you have 3500 posts and I have >100). Sorry for wasting your time

mason55 · #9 11-30-2005, 09:19 PM

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You didn't say that you folded, but since you find it an easy fold, I kinda assumed you did. I didn't think it's as easy as a fold as you do (maybe thats why you have 3500 posts and I have >100). Sorry for wasting your time

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[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

This is good discussion. I'm still trying to decide whether it is as easy as it seems. I'm a MTT newbie [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Anyway, I think that, yes, I would fold to that raise on any paint card.

If this were the river it would be an easy call, but villain has made it obvious that I'm playing for my stack, which is what I think makes it an easy fold.

#10 11-30-2005, 09:27 PM

The $1000 bet, looks like a bet to scare you more than a Str8. If i had a str8 with position, I would raise to 600 or 800 max... I would even call this bet and min-raise your river bet or something else to extract more money than to scare you. However, a set could play it like that, a little fast but would make sense to charge you for a AJ or AQ...

I call and loose.