is this just dumb?

tinhat · #1 11-17-2005, 03:40 PM

Friend reviewed this hand and didn't at all like flop play. Hand is from awhile back and don't recall reads but based just on my play I'm fairly confident villain wasn't a psycho.

I raised because 1) pf capped pot; 2) IMM I had nothing to lose and no odds to call down/hope for gutshot (maybe my weakish bdfd makes that judgement wrong?). So I risked an extra sb hoping to check behind or maybe see sd for no more bets; might possibly have considered folding to flop 3-bet.

When turn gave me 4-card fl I figured since villain didn't 3-bet flop and wouldn't fold to a check, that he might think he was beat two ways now and possibly fold; should I be checking turn w/my new outs?

I most likely would've played differently > HU; and I don't make this play all day long but is my friend right that it's reckless? Just seems to me hanging on here by only calling and not trying to force something with an underpair HU on that board is weakish.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG raises, MP calls, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, UTG caps, MP folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (11.50 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero raises, UTG calls.

Turn: (7.75 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets ...

Mike

krishanleong · #2 11-17-2005, 03:48 PM

yes, just call the flop.

Krishan

kidcolin · #3 11-17-2005, 03:50 PM

The flop would be a thin call (some might say it's a "call, and not even close", but it's thinner than it looks). The turn would be a good call once you picked up the 3rd nut flush draw. The river would be a fold if he bet and you missed any of your outs.

The problem with your flop raise is he's never folding a hand that beats you. KK is going to showdown here (esecially at this level). AK might slow down against you, but he's going to showdown. AA, QQ, JJ, and AQ are going to absolutley punish you, either on the flop or turn.

#4 11-17-2005, 07:21 PM

Exactly how many hands would UTG cap preflop do we beat here?

Fold the flop.

#5 11-17-2005, 07:49 PM

The flop isn't awful, but given he capped preflop I think you're beat and getting 3-bet most of the time. I call the flop and fold the turn UI.

The turn is not good. There's no way he's folding. He's either calling down a pair, or he called the flop looking to CR you on the turn. Take the free card.

Spicymoose · #6 11-17-2005, 08:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Exactly how many hands would UTG cap preflop do we beat here?

Fold the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

We don't have to be currently ahead of UTG to be able to call the flop. Its 12:1 to call, which would imply that you need about 3 outs. Considering your gutshot, trip, and backdoor flush draw, you would have a maximum of 7.5 outs. Obviously we need to discount that significantly, considering his range, but I think we at least have enough to peel the flop.

tinhat · #7 11-17-2005, 08:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Exactly how many hands would UTG cap preflop do we beat here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Unfortunately we won't find out since he c-f turn; but apparently it indicates more than you think.

[ QUOTE ]

Fold the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can't be serious, can you? UI c-c I'm spending <= 2.5bb to win possibly 12bb; IMM I can be wrong here plenty.

In a tiny pot I fold; 77-88 or less I (probably) fold; can't at all see folding TT here...

Mike

flawless_victory · #8 11-17-2005, 08:15 PM

take the free card on the turn.

tinhat · #9 11-17-2005, 08:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]

The turn is not good. There's no way he's folding. He's either calling down a pair, or he called the flop looking to CR you on the turn. Take the free card.

[/ QUOTE ]

This I understand; but given the size of the pot I thought it was more important to offer him a chance to fold than fearing a possible c-r; and since 1) my hand has improved somewhat, 2) it now might look like I raised w/fl draw that has just arrived and 3) having no idea at all about his real strenght, truthfully I can't see checking here. A non fl card I would've checked; didn't turn out that way...

Mike

Spicymoose · #10 11-17-2005, 08:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
take the free card on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like... but do you raise the flop in the first place?