AQs. NASTY HAND. PARTY 1/2.

[flawless_victory]

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You absolutely have to bet this flop. You reraised preflop, a K flops. AK is a likely hand for you, right? Bet the damned thing. If you are scared to bet here, don't three bet the AQs preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]
hmm. scared to bet? why would i be scared, this is limit poker...
this is one of the worst flops for my hand and im just trying to make good decisions as opposed to bad ones.

not sure if youve played this game, but it is usually quite tight preflop, so these guys usually have good starting hands, and AK is a likely hand for a sb that called 3.

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Now here's the interesting thing that I would consider that nobody else has: Three bet the flop. This board is draw heavy, and you have position. People like to semibluff out of position with draws, to no end. The guy in the middle either has an absolute monster or a draw. I think he has the latter. Now, what about the guy in the front? Might as well find out, since you've made the pot huge. Pop it and take the free card, unless you spike an A on the turn. You may actually fold out the guy in front and be able to bet the turn headsup. Think about this for a second.

[/ QUOTE ]
not sure why id want to do this, raising the turn is the only way i could get this guy off a pair, and even then, ppl dont fold in big pots... especially online.


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The river card actually kind of sucks for you. You must call, but I think you lost to 89. The question is does raising buy you the pot here? Doubt it. Call and hope your hand is good. You can't fold this river.

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well, i was worried that he did have 89 (although this would be insanely loose preflop play), but i figured there wasnt much chance he would fold this to a river raise anyway, so i called thinking he might have a JcTc hand, or maybe some ridiculous flop bluff w/ no hand, that hed given up on when both of us called.

[flawless_victory]

[ QUOTE ]


There is no place for indecision in poker. If you think you have but 3 outs, then fold. If you think you have the best hand which requires charging an inferior one, Or... that he's betting some measely hand that he doesn't really want to call two more bets with, then raise.

[/ QUOTE ]
hmmm.
on the flop, i felt id be lucky to have three outs. i did not think i had the sb beat. i called one bet cause i was getting 15:1 w/ position and had 2 backdoor draws to the nuts. i thought that i needed to peel there, plus its better for my image.

[J.A.Sucker]

[ QUOTE ]
hmm. scared to bet? why would i be scared, this is limit poker...
this is one of the worst flops for my hand and im just trying to make good decisions as opposed to bad ones.

not sure if youve played this game, but it is usually quite tight preflop, so these guys usually have good starting hands, and AK is a likely hand for a sb that called 3.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are thinking about checking this flop through, it sounds like you are scared to bet. This is an automatic bet. This may be a terrible flop for your hand, but it doesn't matter. What does matter, is that your opponents don't know what you have, and most of your hands will LOVE this flop. That's why you can get them to lay hands down. Think about it this way, if you are up front and have TT, how are you going to feel about taking one off, realizing that you may get jammed by the guy in the middle and the button behind you? High limit poker isn't about your cards - your opponents are thinking about your cards, too. It's about thinking about what they are thinking about and reacting to it. That's why betting is automatic, and 3 betting is something to consider.

I have (and do) play this game, though I prefer to play shorthanded games online at this level. Of course AK is a possible hand for SB, but so is a pair. You might as well find out, and maybe fold the best hand in the process. When you 3 bet preflop, you decided to play a big pot (correctly I might add, since you have the best position and a great hand). Follow through on your plan.

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not sure why id want to do this, raising the turn is the only way i could get this guy off a pair, and even then, ppl dont fold in big pots... especially online.

[/ QUOTE ]

My flop 3 bet isn't an absolute. It's something to think about. As I said before, suppose you are in the SB with TT. You decide to make a move on the flop bet, and then you get a caller and a 3 bet. Yuck. Of course, you may have to bet the turn again, but this is an option, too. If you can get it headsup with the guy in the middle, that sounds good to me. This line does this, while charging the draw the most.

My river action is something to think about, once again. I don't think it's right, nor something that you should do every time, but I don't think it should be neglected, since it can be VERY right, if the right spots are chosen.

High limit isn't about playing by rote. It's about playing situations and thinking outside the box. That's the main point of my thoughts in this thread. This works online, live, or on Mars. Believe me.

[flawless_victory]

[ QUOTE ]
High limit isn't about playing by rote. It's about playing situations and thinking outside the box. That's the main point of my thoughts in this thread. This works online, live, or on Mars. Believe me.

[/ QUOTE ]
ok, good post dude.

im just gonna say that youve prob made some incorrect assumptions about the way i play...
not trying to be argumentative or anything, i sincerely enjoyed both your posts in this thread, but dont assume im some st8forward 2P2 TAG type player... if anything, i have this sick tendency to go way too far on read based stuff...

i called a guy a 3/4pot on river bet w/9 high (he had a flush) a couple days ago playing HUNLHE, ahaha. i should post that hand. he apparently looked at the hand history and was totally confused... i got him allin w/ 2outs/1to come, two hands later.

[Lestat]

Is there a way to set up my computer to show me just one sentence at a time so I don't rush through a post and botch another response?

I thought your opponent BET the turn and then realized too late that you both had checked it.

I think your bet on the flop is fine for the reasons you mentioned. When check/raised, you can't like it, but your two backdoors should be enough to peel.

I'll usually only check the turn here if I'm comfortable with how to react to a river bet (call or fold). Otherwise, I'd rather bet the turn myself. I think you played fine. But I don't think folding the river is terrible either as it's very player dependent.

Sorry for botching my first response. -gl

[J.A.Sucker]

I don't take your stuff to be argumentative. Quite the opposite, actually. I'm just trying to point out some things to you and hopefully to others that one needs to think about in order to beat the big games. I'm trying to make my strategy posts genearlly applicable these days, and this was an interesting situation and a great hand to illustrate several things to think about during a hand. Whether or not you actually do certain things is immaterial - it's all part of a larger thought process. All too often this forum has been "well my opponnet is a 17/2/323423423 and I have AK, what do I do?" This type of thinking has degraded the forums, IMO. This is also why several players can't beat the big games, even though they get the money in the 15/30 & 30/60 games. Good post, flawless. Awhile ago I made a post about how one shouldn't worry about bets in big pots - they should worry about pots in big pots. This is the case often in a spot like this.

[tongni]

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Now here's the interesting thing that I would consider that nobody else has: Three bet the flop.

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There's a reason why no one else has considered it. Putting your opponents on nothing and nothing after a checkraise and cold call is a little wishful thinking. A monster or draw? How about AK? QQ if he shares the same read? Also no one will ever fold on this flop to a 3bet, because they are always getting odds even with a pocket pair.

[mterry]

Bummer. I don't think you played it poorly, but I may have cold-called AQs. After this hand I'd be taking notes on this villain. I feel his turn attempt at c/r is pretty bad and fps.

I assume nobody here likes villain's c/r with a set on the turn against Hero's range?