100NL...too loose of a call?

uncleshady · #1 10-29-2005, 09:57 AM

NO READ ON OPPONENT.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

saw flop|saw showdown

MP2 ($102.05)
Hero ($84.40)
CO ($201.70)
Button ($73.65)
SB ($84.95)
BB ($133.20)
UTG ($108.95)
UTG+1 ($59.58)
UTG+2 ($85.75)
MP1 ($106.95)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.50.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $1, UTG+2 calls $1, 2 folds, Hero calls $1, CO calls $1, Button calls $1, SB (poster) raises to $7.5, 1 fold, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, Hero calls $7, CO folds, Button folds.

WAS CALLING 7 HERE BAD? I'LL HAVE TO PUT IN 8 MORE TO WIN 16 ALREADY IN THERE... 2-1?

Flop: ($21) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $10, SB raises to $40, Hero...

Finite_Risk · #2 10-29-2005, 10:48 AM

I'd lay this PF, without reads.

Now that you're here, stack his AK

UOPokerPlayer · #3 10-29-2005, 10:53 AM

15 on the flop and push over his raise. He likes his hand, and you've got a set. No way to not lose stack here against 1010 or AA. Pf is fine.

mustardo · #4 10-29-2005, 11:07 AM

Preflop just about ok. In general play the 10% rule, with a pair, only call if its under 10% of yours and your opponent's stack and you don't think there'll be another raise behind. Which obviously looks to be the case here.

Post flop either push over his raise or the call the flop c/raise and get it all in on the turn. He doesn't have a draw so there's no cards that can hurt you and pushing the flop gives him a last chance to fold ak, after he leads the turn there'll be no way he can fold. If he has AA or TT this short unless you have a mega read that's just bad luck.

uncleshady · #5 10-29-2005, 03:46 PM

Thanks for the 10% rule. Im a bit of a NL refugee, and some of the finer points I do not yet grasp. I was really worried about AA the way he was playing this...

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

saw flop|saw showdown

MP2 ($102.05)
Hero ($84.40)
CO ($201.70)
Button ($73.65)
SB ($84.95)
BB ($133.20)
UTG ($108.95)
UTG+1 ($59.58)
UTG+2 ($85.75)
MP1 ($106.95)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.50.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $1, UTG+2 calls $1, 2 folds, Hero calls $1, CO calls $1, Button calls $1, SB (poster) raises to $7.5, 1 fold, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, Hero calls $7, CO folds, Button folds.

Flop: ($21) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $10, SB raises to $40, Hero calls $66.40 (All-In), SB calls $36.40.

Turn: ($173.80) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($173.80) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $173.80

Results in white below: 
SB has Ah Kc (one pair, aces).
Hero has 8c 8s (three of a kind, eights).
Outcome: Hero wins $173.80.

ryanghall · #6 10-29-2005, 03:49 PM

Fold preflop. His raise is too big. In NL you can't just say 2-1 and call. This isn't all-in preflop. 88 is a very difficult hand to play when you miss, which you usually will.

On the flop, this is ideal. Call and hopefully he'll push the turn. If not, set him all-in yourself no matter what falls.

Ryan

Hattifnatt · #7 10-29-2005, 03:56 PM

The call of SB's raise preflop is ok, but it's marginal.

Bet a little more on the flop.

After his checkraise:

1. Push the flop...

Or...

2. Just call his c/r and his probable push on the turn. If he not pushes turn you of course move in yourself.

I don't know if you gain much from my 2nd alternative but it feels better sporadly because he can make a weird play with QQ or so.

What do you other guys think is the best way to play without read over the long run?

uncleshady · #8 10-29-2005, 06:08 PM

This must have been a really marginal hand...

[ QUOTE ]
I'd lay this PF, without reads

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop just about ok.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
The call of SB's raise preflop is ok, but it's marginal

[/ QUOTE ]

Honestly, 88 is my cutoff for calling big raises with PP against anybody, so this hand was a real challenge. The villans raise after everybody limped screamed steal to me,but my NL radar isnt attuned yet.

#9 10-29-2005, 07:13 PM

W/small PP the 10% rule is actually further defined as the 5-10 rule. Less than 5% of your stack it's a no brainer call. More than 10% is a no call. In the middle is a judgement call. Please keep in mind that your 7.5 - 1 against flopping a set so your looking for a big payout. Dont make these types of calls against the smaller stacks.
You can also make this play with Ax suited where x is between 2-5 giving you the additional possibility of a straight. Again your looking for a big payoff.

Hattifnatt · #10 10-29-2005, 07:16 PM

The rule is correct, but it's a big difference between 88 and A4s + that he had position of the guy so it wasn't just a flop a set or drop situation.