Play a Hand With the Masters #2 Results and Panel Comments

[gergery]

Awesome, I love the "Hand with the Masters"

I'm curious -- opponent's T800 bet on the turn seems like a bet that obviously commits him. Weren't any of you more concerned that that screams out the nuts?

How would you have played some of the most likely hands you put him on here if you were in his shoes? (ie. if you had QT here in BB how do you play it? JJ? AJ/KJ?)

--Greg

[ QUOTE ]
So Gigabet, I advocated a push on the river. I figured Villian was scared of either the flush or boat possibilities. You could easily be on suited cards that hit the river, or the magical A/J.

I don't mind the check, leaving yourself the possibility of staying alive with a decent enough stack to mount a comeback.

But, do you believe there was any possibility of Villian folding? If so, how often do you believe he would fold to your push on that scary river?

[/ QUOTE ]

0% if he's beating us.

[grandgnu]

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[ QUOTE ]
So Gigabet, I advocated a push on the river. I figured Villian was scared of either the flush or boat possibilities. You could easily be on suited cards that hit the river, or the magical A/J.

I don't mind the check, leaving yourself the possibility of staying alive with a decent enough stack to mount a comeback.

But, do you believe there was any possibility of Villian folding? If so, how often do you believe he would fold to your push on that scary river?

[/ QUOTE ]

0% if he's beating us.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you don't think he folds the straight against the possible flush or boat, or the flush against the possible boat? Ever?

How often does a villain check a hand that beats us on the river? What hands in villain's range does he call us with on the river if we push?

[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
So Gigabet, I advocated a push on the river. I figured Villian was scared of either the flush or boat possibilities. You could easily be on suited cards that hit the river, or the magical A/J.

I don't mind the check, leaving yourself the possibility of staying alive with a decent enough stack to mount a comeback.

But, do you believe there was any possibility of Villian folding? If so, how often do you believe he would fold to your push on that scary river?

[/ QUOTE ]

0% if he's beating us.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you don't think he folds the straight against the possible flush or boat, or the flush against the possible boat? Ever?

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe like 2% or something, but either way insignificant. You really think someone's folding a straight here getting 4:1 to a possible back-door flush or boat?

[grandgnu]

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So you don't think he folds the straight against the possible flush or boat, or the flush against the possible boat? Ever?

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Maybe like 2% or something, but either way insignificant. You really think someone's folding a straight here getting 4:1 to a possible back-door flush or boat?

[/ QUOTE ]

If villian is afraid of the flush or the boat (reasonably obvious given his check after leading the whole way) then I believe it is possible he will fold to our push. Otherwise, why check? Does he expect us to check the flush or the boat? If he's going to check-call, he might as well push.

I don't know that he'll fold more than 1 times in 4, since we don't have any reads on our opponent. But I do know that he is scared of the river and we have an opportunity to take down a big pot (since our push represents enough of a bet that he'd be too short-stacked to mount a comeback, while if he does opt to fold to our push, he has enough chips to continue play)

But, I'm not adverse to checking and hoping we win, and keeping enough chips for ourselves to mount a comeback as well.

[ QUOTE ]
Otherwise, why check?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because villain's a bad player, IMHO. He played this hand poorly and cost himself chips. Plenty of hands that he beats here call a river push getting 4:1, and many of them check behind. I think his check was very much not thought out.

[grandgnu]

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Otherwise, why check?

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Because villain's a bad player, IMHO. He played this hand poorly and cost himself chips. Plenty of hands that he beats here call a river push getting 4:1, and many of them check behind. I think his check was very much not thought out.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would've gone broke somewhere on the flop or turn anyway. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[MLG]

[ QUOTE ]
If villian is afraid of the flush or the boat (reasonably obvious given his check after leading the whole way) then I believe it is possible he will fold to our push. Otherwise, why check? Does he expect us to check the flush or the boat? If he's going to check-call, he might as well push.



[/ QUOTE ]

The idea that if you are going to call a bet you might as well bet is wrong. There are situations where this is true. Like on the flop when you have a draw and you would be forced to call a push due to the odds it is laying you. In that situation you want to make the bet so that you have folding equity added to the equity you have from the times you hit your draw.

However, the opposite is true when you arrive at the river with a mediocre hand. In that case if you bet you will only get called by hands that beat you, but if you check intending to call, then while you will still lose to better hands you will sometimes tempt worse hands (that would have folded if you had bet) into bluffing.

Moral of the story, dont abide by universal platitudes like if you're going to call a bet its better to bet yourself. In poker, context is everything.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If villian is afraid of the flush or the boat (reasonably obvious given his check after leading the whole way) then I believe it is possible he will fold to our push. Otherwise, why check? Does he expect us to check the flush or the boat? If he's going to check-call, he might as well push.



[/ QUOTE ]

The idea that if you are going to call a bet you might as well bet is wrong. There are situations where this is true. Like on the flop when you have a draw and you would be forced to call a push due to the odds it is laying you. In that situation you want to make the bet so that you have folding equity added to the equity you have from the times you hit your draw.

However, the opposite is true when you arrive at the river with a mediocre hand. In that case if you bet you will only get called by hands that beat you, but if you check intending to call, then while you will still lose to better hands you will sometimes tempt worse hands (that would have folded if you had bet) into bluffing.

Moral of the story, dont abide by universal platitudes like if you're going to call a bet its better to bet yourself. In poker, context is everything.

[/ QUOTE ]

I still think checking QT here is horrible. Do you disagree, or are you just annoyed by the cliche?