Two Plus Two Older Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Older Archives > Other Topics > Politics

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 09-12-2005, 08:27 PM
FishHooks FishHooks is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 596
Default Re: Federal Response to Katrina FASTER than to Andrew, Hugo & Others

Liberals are always so angry, do some research before these posts please.

To all the conservatives, the liberals dont understand states rights, this is all a moot point in trying to explain it to them.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 09-12-2005, 08:31 PM
twowords twowords is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Climbing to 1BB/100...
Posts: 137
Default Re: Federal Response to Katrina FASTER than to Andrew, Hugo & Others

[ QUOTE ]

To all the conservatives, the liberals dont understand states rights, this is all a moot point in trying to explain it to them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, you've just framed the debate so accurately it amazing.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 09-12-2005, 08:44 PM
cardcounter0 cardcounter0 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,370
Default Here it is. The President Himself.... No Permission mentioned.

This was declared Aug. 27th, so why the delay?

The Feds had an absoulte Duty to Act, Authorization to Act and Jurisdiction to Act

For Immediate Release
Office of the Press Secretary
August 27, 2005

Statement on Federal Emergency Assistance for Louisiana
The President today declared an emergency exists in the State of Louisiana and ordered Federal aid to supplement state and local response efforts in the parishes located in the path of Hurricane Katrina beginning on August 26, 2005, and continuing.

The President's action authorizes the Department of Homeland Security, Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), to coordinate all disaster relief efforts which have the purpose of alleviating the hardship and suffering caused by the emergency on the local population, and to provide appropriate assistance for required emergency measures, authorized under Title V of the Stafford Act, to save lives, protect property and public health and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a catastrophe in the parishes of Allen, Avoyelles, Beauregard, Bienville, Bossier, Caddo, Caldwell, Claiborne, Catahoula, Concordia, De Soto, East Baton Rouge, East Carroll, East Feliciana, Evangeline, Franklin, Grant, Jackson, LaSalle, Lincoln, Livingston, Madison, Morehouse, Natchitoches, Pointe Coupee, Ouachita, Rapides, Red River, Richland, Sabine, St. Helena, St. Landry, Tensas, Union, Vernon, Webster, West Carroll, West Feliciana, and Winn.

Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency. Debris removal and emergency protective measures, including direct Federal assistance, will be provided at 75 percent Federal funding.

Representing FEMA, Michael D. Brown, Under Secretary for Emergency Preparedness and Response, Department of Homeland Security, named William Lokey as the Federal Coordinating Officer for Federal recovery operations in the affected area.

FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: FEMA (202) 646-4600.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 09-12-2005, 11:19 PM
BluffTHIS! BluffTHIS! is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 375
Default Re: Federal Response to Katrina FASTER than to Andrew, Hugo & Others

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Its not the operation or the guys on the ground itself that is criticized, it is the leadership.

[/ QUOTE ]

What aren't you able to grasp about what the article said? If the response was good which it was then there was NO leadership problem only a phantom one created by the media and liberal/Bush-bashing spin-meisters.

[/ QUOTE ]

SOP is not good enough for the worst natural disaster in US history and the grimmest post-disaster situation, when hundred of lives are at stake; we must demand better from all our leadership, and not be satisfied with excuses involving procedures and red tape. Care to respond the actual meat of my previous post instead of avoiding it completely?

[/ QUOTE ]

There was NO meat in your Bush-bashing post prior to this one. The article showed that the response was very fast compared to other disasters and gave the analysis of an experienced military officer of the FACT that it JUST TAKES TIME to get resources in place. And as far as recognizing the incompetence of local leaders, that was done in 2-3 days, although you are right if the federal government should just assume a priori that all democrat local officials are more likely to be incompetent.

And BTW, how very funny you say "hundreds of lives at stake" now that it seems clear that the dire predictions of 10,000+ dead was just more media/liberal spin.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 09-12-2005, 11:41 PM
twowords twowords is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Climbing to 1BB/100...
Posts: 137
Default Re: Federal Response to Katrina FASTER than to Andrew, Hugo & Others

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Its not the operation or the guys on the ground itself that is criticized, it is the leadership.

[/ QUOTE ]

What aren't you able to grasp about what the article said? If the response was good which it was then there was NO leadership problem only a phantom one created by the media and liberal/Bush-bashing spin-meisters.

[/ QUOTE ]

SOP is not good enough for the worst natural disaster in US history and the grimmest post-disaster situation, when hundred of lives are at stake; we must demand better from all our leadership, and not be satisfied with excuses involving procedures and red tape. Care to respond the actual meat of my previous post instead of avoiding it completely?

[/ QUOTE ]

There was NO meat in your Bush-bashing post prior to this one. The article showed that the response was very fast compared to other disasters and gave the analysis of an experienced military officer of the FACT that it JUST TAKES TIME to get resources in place. And as far as recognizing the incompetence of local leaders, that was done in 2-3 days, although you are right if the federal government should just assume a priori that all democrat local officials are more likely to be incompetent.

And BTW, how very funny you say "hundreds of lives at stake" now that it seems clear that the dire predictions of 10,000+ dead was just more media/liberal spin.

[/ QUOTE ]

1) So you really think Bush and Brown were on top of things? No comment on their well-documented ignorant statements or Bush continuing his vacation?

2) Blamed my questions in "1)" for being bush-bashing then making a pointless jab aginst dems? Your credibility is falling.

3) Thousands without food and water in NO and the need is not dire, but merely liberal media spin? Hundreds of lives were not at stake?

Feds followed SOP while hundreds suffered, and Bush and Brown were not effective leaders. This was a unique situation where we needed leadership and could not find any, local or federal. As another poster said, the same resonse as the one to andrew is not good enough here.

Stick to reason and not rhetoric!
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 09-12-2005, 11:43 PM
slamdunkpro slamdunkpro is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Springfield VA
Posts: 544
Default Re: Here it is. The President Himself.... No Permission mentioned.

I’ll go slow and try to use small words so you can follow…..


Let’s start with your earlier post about the insurrection act – look at the bold (really black letters) for the part you missed/didn’t understand/ignored.

Quelling Civil Disturbances: The Insurrection Act (10 U.S.C. § 331 et seq.)

* State and local governments have primary responsibility for quelling rebellions (32 C.F.R. § 215.4(a).

That’s the mayor and the governor

* The President may use the military (including the Federalized National Guard) to quell (1) civil disturbances in a State (upon the Governor's request),

The governor that needed an additional 24 hours to make up her mind

(2) rebellions that make it difficult to enforce Federal law

see above

, or (3) any insurrection that impedes a State's ability to protect citizens' constitutional rights and that State is unable to unwilling to protect these rights.

Both the mayor and the govenor said “all is well!”

* Before committing U.S. troops, the President must issue a proclamation for rebellious citizens to disperse, cease, and desist.

And the local authorities can object, basically vetoing the proclamation

Now, on to some other issues:

[ QUOTE ]
This was declared Aug. 27th, so why the delay?

The Feds had an absoulte Duty to Act, Authorization to Act and Jurisdiction to Act

[/ QUOTE ]

The State and city had a hurricane plan – they didn’t follow it.


Louisiana gets more Federal money for Army Corps of Engineers flood control projects than any other state, 1.5 billion dollars but most of it was diverted by state and local politicians to other pork projects instead of NO levies.
Other states and agency had been reviewing the plan since the 90’s and had questioned the workability of it. Shove em’ all in the Superdome was the best they could come up with in 10 years????

Now finally….

The thing you either don’t want to understand or can’t is that FEMA, The Red Cross, The National Guard, even the Police and Fire Departments are reactionary services. This is why they are called responders They are activated after something happens. It’s even in the NO emergency plan not the expect help from FEMA for 72 to 96 hours after (now try real hard here) the event has ended. In other words you don’t stock a bunch of relief supplies in the area where the disaster might destroy them. Ask any emergency worker Fire/Rescue/Medical. One of the first rules in emergency response is to not become a victim yourself.

In any case FEMA is primarily a financial assistance agency They aren’t the one passing out the water and blankets, they are the one who spends tax money to help disaster victims recover financially.

The local rescue personnel, the local and state agencies plus (when the governor calls them out) the national guard are the ones with the water, blankets, food etc.

Finally……..

The National Guard, The US military and FEMA were in Louisiana faster than any other major hurricane, with a greater volume of personnel and materials. In 5 Days- more than 400,000 people were rescued/relocated/evacuated; order has been restored; The Army Corps of Engineers has all but repaired the breaches and begun pumping water out of New Orleans; so far less than 700 people have been killed (who knows how many of those were killed by looters) out of a city population of 448,000.

So, they got there faster, with more support than any other time and yet you still piss and moan.

What the hell do you want?
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 09-13-2005, 12:00 AM
BluffTHIS! BluffTHIS! is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 375
Default Re: Federal Response to Katrina FASTER than to Andrew, Hugo & Others

[ QUOTE ]
Stick to reason and not rhetoric!

[/ QUOTE ]

I have. The federal response was indeed fast so there is no REASON to claim otherwise and to do so for political reasons is mere RHETORIC
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 09-13-2005, 01:19 AM
BCPVP BCPVP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Whitewater, WI
Posts: 830
Default Re: Federal Response to Katrina FASTER than to Andrew, Hugo & Others

[ QUOTE ]
Feds followed SOP while hundreds suffered, and Bush and Brown were not effective leaders. This was a unique situation where we needed leadership and could not find any, local or federal.

[/ QUOTE ]
What exactly would this "leadership" have done better? Declare physics and logistics irrelevant and pull all the aid out of their hats? The argument set forth in the OP was that criticism of the government's response should be tempered by the knowledge that the Feds responded as fast as they have for previous disasters.

Now does this absolve government from the mistakes that were made? Of course not, but the left has made a career out of turning molehills into mountains with regards to President Bush.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 09-13-2005, 06:22 AM
cardcounter0 cardcounter0 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,370
Default Amazing!

Your entire post has nothing to do with the authority of the President to send National Guard into the State without permission from the Governor.

You do mention The Insurrection Act again, which was not needed, as the President has other authorities granted to him to send National Guard in this type of situation.

And Again --- You dispute the LIE yourself.

[ QUOTE ]
* Before committing U.S. troops, the President must issue a proclamation for rebellious citizens to disperse, cease, and desist.


[/ QUOTE ]

Daddy Bush did just that. He issued a proclamation over the Rodney King riots, and federalized the California National Guard four hours later, over the objections of local authorities, during the Rodney King riots.

So put your hands over your ears -- chant LA-LA-LA-LA-LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU - LA-LA-LA-LA-LA -- and keep beliveing that the President can't federalize troops without permission for the State.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 09-13-2005, 09:32 AM
slamdunkpro slamdunkpro is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Springfield VA
Posts: 544
Default Re: Amazing!

Cut to the chase

The National Guard, The US military and FEMA were in Louisiana faster than any other major hurricane, with a greater volume of personnel and materials. In 5 Days- more than 400,000 people were rescued/relocated/evacuated; order has been restored; The Army Corps of Engineers has all but repaired the breaches and begun pumping water out of New Orleans; so far less than 700 people have been killed (who knows how many of those were killed by looters) out of a city population of 448,000.

So, they got there faster, with more support than any other time and yet you still piss and moan.

What the hell do you want?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.