Official Home Poker forum "bad beat" labeling rules

[Lottery Larry]

I'm seizing control and defining the "official" Home Poker forum bad beat definition rules :P

A "bad" beat has to involve several things:

1) The suckout has to be much greater than 5:1 or 7:1. 4 outers on the river and runner-runner are the best examples of results that meet this requirement. You were just beaten otherwise; it was not a "bad" beat, it was a "she/he was due" beat.

2) The victim of the beat cannot have caused the beat with his/her OWN poor play, poor starting cards, or other general stupidity that the "victim" doesn't acknowledge about their own play and lucky flop. This is more properly called a "you were LUCKY to suffer a bad beat" beat.. or "you unlucky MORON" beat might be more accurate [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

3) The suckout artist needed to have a reasonable chance to play his/her hand in a more intelligent and chip preserving way. Short-stacked in a tourney, or against an extremely aggressive loose player, means the beat can only be labeled a "tough beat" or "no choice beat," not a bad beat.

4) If it happened online, then NOTHING can be called a bad beat. If you had a 1/1 billion chance to get beaten, and the online rooms deal a billion hands a day... you have suffered a "It was MY turn" beat. Besides, you're in the wrong forum anyway.

5) The consequences of the bad beat have to be significant. You have to be largely crippled or worse in a tournament, or lose an upper-bracket pot as a result. Anything else is called a "poor-man's beat"

6) Any cash game where either party is all-in, for less than a large amount of money, is just a "That's Poker!" beat

Those posters that violate the bad beat rules of posting here will agree to be harassed for the following week AND you accept that the poker gods will be sending 3 more beats your way in the near future, which you can't whine about AND you must put this picture on your computer background during your "suspension" http://tinyurl.com/882fy

Agreed, everyone? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

That being established, here are my rulings on the recent spate of bad-beat stories. As the rules weren't established yet, offenders will escape without penalty... THIS time! ;P

a) Drew16- "Man I just busted out of a SNG when I held 22 and the flop came 24J. I went all in with $1400 got called by Q9 and watched him catch T8 for the straight busting me out. Thats much worse. Keep on Keepin on"
This definately would qualify as a bad beat (if it weren't violating the "MY turn" rule), unless:
1) the Q9 had 6x or more of Drew's stack size
2) the tourney was near the bubble
3) Drew had been stealing a lot of pots lately.

VERDICT= Close to acceptable. A big enough beat that it almost overcomes the online penalty.

b) Annorax- runner runner straight flush, but how big was his stack? How aggressive had you been?

VERDICT= without more information, undecided between a Tough Beat and a Bad Beat

c) yvesaint - " The next month, we had AK and AQ go all-in on the AKQ flop, only to have the AQ hit the J and 10 of his suit to get a Royal .... "

VERDICT= Tough Beat at best, but we're missing a lot of details. Would YOU have played the AQ differently? Don't think we can label this bad play, so...

d) CaptSensible-" I call a 300 chip bet with 88. flop comes 5 8 J. I go all in. I'ts down to me and one other. He calls my all in. He has trip 5's. I have trip 8's. I couldn't be happier. He hit's his ONE OUTER 5 on the river to make quads"

VERDICT= Without more information about stack size, set over set suckouts when you called rather than raised make this more of a "he was DUE" beat.

e) akebono- (online)" MP has 800 chips left and limps in (for 200) with Ad 2d

BB has 4000 chips with Jx 6d

Flop: 3d 4d 5d
MP has a straight flush and goes all in.
BB calls.

Turn: 7
BB makes his higher straight flush."

VERDICT= could have been a No Choice Beat, if not for the online rule. I'd have called that measly T600 all-in in a heartbeat with his J6, and a number of other weak hands, thinking I have more outs than I actually did.. and if I didn't, it was worth the gamble to knock you out. So this ends up as a "MY turn" Beat.

Thank you for abiding by these rules in the future! :P
LL

(And before you think I'm going "holier than thou" on you, I just recently put a bad beat on someone. A tight player in a STT with rebuys pushed his last T750, with less than a couple of grand in the pot, on the turn of AKQx board- no flushes possible. I, pretty much KNOWING I was beating with my AT, but holding a big stack, decide to call the AK. As he is saying "only if you have a ten" the river four-outer comes. I was definately a lucky moron, especially since that pot helped me survive later on to take 1st place)

[Bulldog]

Not home poker, but a 25+2 online SNG I played at lunch today:

A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] vs 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Flop 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

All the money goes in on the flop. My A8 is no good. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

Online or not, I'm still ticked.

[Lottery Larry]

ouch!

I'll see if I can come up with a better one to inflict on you at the tourney... just to watch your head explode!

[W. Deranged]

Larry,

I think there are actually some very useful poker concepts in here that people could learn from. It is important as people are fighting with the natural variance of the game to understand what has to be expected on a regular basis and what is actually bad. Losing to a guy who flopped a flush draw when you flop a set is not a bad beat. Losing on the river in no limit when you failed to bet enough on the turn to make villain's call incorrect is not a bad beat (just bad play). And so forth...

Losing to runner-runner or a 1/2 outer sucks, though.

[Lottery Larry]

I'm not often accused of being subtle... or deep for that matter : P

I'm glad you got something important out of it.

[beekeeper]

This is great--although, if I follow your guidelines, I may have to suck it up some. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[HitHard69]

May I submit for your approval...
1/2 NL, I have about 150, villian has about 60, and we get all-in preflop.
I have A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Villian has A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Flop brings 2 clubs, turn and river bring two more and I lose to a A high flush

Although I was never ahead in the head, it should have been a split pot, so I don't know if it qualifies.

[Lottery Larry]

The idea wasn't to encourage MORE of these posts....

and this is a half-beat at best.

[sully4321]

how about this?

i limp with 55 and SB calls with J9o. bb checks...

flop J52... SB bets really strongly, BB calls and i push. SB calls and BB folds. turn 9, river 9.

[Lottery Larry]

Just because the one "THIS IS NOT A BAD BEAT" AK post.