Am I missing something here?

[JoshuaMayes]

[ QUOTE ]
He's the small blind; the pot is unraised pre-flop; four see the flop and turn; three see the river; the bettor is two to my guy's right. Is this the info you need?

[/ QUOTE ]

So hero is probably getting 5:1 on his call with two to act after him. If the other two fold, he ends up heads up, out of position, with a bunch of non-nut draws . . . thats not a spot I like to be in. Even if hero hits, he will probably only get 1/2 the pot in that scenario. If one of the two behind check-raises (probably not that likely) hero ends up paying even more for his non-nut draws.

Granted, non-nut draws are more likely to win with only four in the pot, but 5 small bets is not that much to fight over. Barring the miracle A hearts, hero is probably not going to scoop, and there is a good chance that he will get scooped even if he catches one of his "outs". In any event, I would not put much faith in a 3d nut low. I would fold this if I was hero.

[HajiShirazu]

The only thing bad about this hand is playing a piece of trash like KJ53 preflop, if you were going to play this hand preflop, short of flopping a made hand this is literally the best possible flop for your hand, which is probably why you don't play KJ53 in a multiway pot even for half a bet. No way you can fold here, four outs to the two way nuts, 3 more outs to the nuts in one direction and a pretty decent shot at the other, a bunch of hearts to the second nut flush which is usually good. As long as you don't play badly when a 7 or 8 comes this is a strong hand.

[Mr_J]

Meant to say A8 or better is better.

"No. Let's say a 7 comes. 8742A loses to 75432."

Don't understand how lows work then. I thought it was judged by who has the lowest, if that's a tie then the next lowest etc. So it's who has the lowest high card? That'd mean 23456 beats A2378?? Or is it judged by who hsa the lowest card, and if that's equal it goes to who has the lowest high card (eg A2456 beats A2348)?

[gergery]

[ QUOTE ]
So it's who has the lowest high card? That'd mean 23456 beats A2378?? Or is it judged by who has the lowest high card (eg A2456 beats A2348)?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes and yes.

Try reversing the order and assuming they are numbers, and the lowest one wins for low (i.e 6542A becomes 65,421 and 8432A becomes 84,321. 65-thousand is lower number than 84-thousand so it wins for low.

--Greg

[Mr_J]

Geez nothing is coming out like I mean, but it doesn't matter, you answered my question.

"Try reversing the order and assuming they are numbers, and the lowest one wins for low"

So 34567 beats A2348. Amazing. I always thought of it how you suggested, but starting with the lowest card. Glad that's patched up, pretty silly leak to have.

[Phat Mack]

[ QUOTE ]
With only 3 outs to the nuts in either direction (the four aces less the one folded make him a wheel with the ace of hearts yielding a nut flush,) I disagree.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure what the above means. He's got 4 A's, 4 6's and a handfull of hearts to make some kind of hand. His hand hit the flop pretty well--it's not his hand that bothers me, it's the way he's playing it: It sounds like he's check/calling with it. He's out of position. If he does make something on the turn or river--something that's not the Ah--he may have troubles showing it down in a way that wins him some money.

JMO

PS: What was the turn card?

[domester]

Hey Phat,

Yes if a six comes he'll have the nut straight, but surely he won't have the low with three others still in attendance. Also, I mentioned that I folded one of the other aces. I was trying to think of the hand in terms of a scoop (which is the general idea, right?). BTW, I believe the turn card was a 9. (As I said, no low came.)

[Buzz]

Domester - Whatever starting cards you play in Omaha-8, you usually will be drawing after the flop.

That's the nature of Omaha-8.

When you play A234s and find at least two cards you can use on the flop, so as to be able to continue, your draws will be for the nuts. (That's a major reason A234s is a premium starting hand).

However, when you play 35JKs and find at least two cards you can use on the flop, so as to be able to continue, your draws will (in general) NOT be for the nuts. (That's a major reason 35JKs is considered a sub-marginal starting hand rather than a premium starting hand).

If you want to only draw to the nuts after the flop, then you don't play 35JKs. The reason is you don’t get a nut-flop or a nut-draw-flop often enough to justify seeing the flop with 35JKs - not even for a half small bet from the small blind.

It's just that simple.

If you are going to see the flop with 35JKs, you have to have something in mind other than drawing only to the nuts after the flop. If you are going to see the flop with 35JKs, then 24T with two cards in your 2nd nut flush suit draw is a reasonably favorable flop for 35JKs - and in general, I think you continue after a reasonably favorable flop.

There are, in my humble opinion, different ways to successfully play this game. I’m not advising you to play 35JKs from the small blind - but if your overall strategy includes playing this hand, then I think your overall strategy also needs to include sometimes drawing to a second nut flush. If you're uncomfortable drawing to a second nut flush, then don't play the hand in the first place.

Are you missing something here? Sort of. I think individuals with enough skill can successfully integrate sometimes playing 35JKs from the small blind into their overall strategy.

Just my opinion.

Buzz