Quads on the button after a bad cold call

Spook · #1 02-03-2005, 06:44 PM

first, terrible players can get good cards.
raiser was 35/20 and first CC was 25/4

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Hero calls, 1 fold, BB calls.

Flop: (8.33 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 bets, MP2 calls, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (7.16 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP2 bets, Hero calls, UTG+1 raises, MP2 calls, Hero ???.

I would wager that I played every one of these streets wrong except for the river (where it was checked to me and I bet).

ErrantNight · #2 02-03-2005, 06:48 PM

you shoulda gone ahead and raised the turn, but as it was, you should DEFINITELY 3-bet, no questions asked.

the flop was just fine, way to go [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

preflop is kinda ugly. i could see 3-betting to isolate... but the CC was potentially ahead of you, as well. s00ted i might look them both up, though.

you sure can flop 'em g00t, though!

admiralfluff · #3 02-03-2005, 06:56 PM

Depending on how the first CC plays post flop I think your cold call could be ok here. If he is weak, I would do it, if he is a textbook TAG, he has you tied at worst, and will play well enough post flop that you won't want to be in the hand if he doesn't.

You got s00per lucky the turn was raised behind you (you definitely should have raised). Even consdering not 3 betting here is punishable by public humiliation.

ErrantNight · #4 02-03-2005, 06:59 PM

some reads / sample size for those stats on the cold-caller would definitely be of assistance. i'm inclined to raise if i want to play this, though. i don't want to encourage the blinds to play, too, and i wouldn't mind stealing initiative (or finding out if the borderline maniac REALLY likes his hand or not)

admiralfluff · #5 02-03-2005, 07:03 PM

Oops. I definitely agree. A raise should always be better than a cold call here.

Derek in NYC · #6 02-03-2005, 07:31 PM

1. preflop. if you're going to put the raiser on garbage (and the cold-caller on garbage), consider 3-betting to fold the blinds. ultimately AJo is a little weak to do this, so i think the ccpf is loose, but perhaps ok. if you were the first cold caller, i would definitely 3-bet.

2. flop. again, depending on reads, i think this is a good position for a slowplay. you have the best possible position, and are ahead of every hand except AK, AQ, and 55. i take my chances here and call, if somebody in EP is going to do the betting for me.

3. the call here is fine. the plan for slowplaying the flop was to raise the turn, but they did a stop & go on you, and then strangely, the turn betting got picked up by somebody new. since the EP bettor has gone into radio silence, you now dont trap any intermediate bets, but instead you have 2 players to act after you. a raise from you will freeze the action up. so i call & hope some of the 4th street checkers will call also.

that said, this is a clear re-raise after UTG+1 raises. somebody will call you.

4. on the river, everyone will check to you and you should bet. you will likely get 1 caller holding something like KK. if you are not called, DO NOT click show cards. enjoy your quads and shut your pie hole.

Derek in NYC · #7 02-03-2005, 07:34 PM

It is interesting that everyone is suggesting to raise 4th street. This is a clear example of where you should seek overcalls, I think. On this flop, everybody--even somebody holding KK for the nut boat--is thinking about the risk of quads. With two players to act after the hero, I think this hand cries out for the 4th street call (seeking overcalls). A raise will kill the action.

ErrantNight · #8 02-03-2005, 07:40 PM

because the flop aggressor is the only player left to act, and even if he folds you're still getting the same amount of money on this turn when the bettor calls as if you'd slowplayed this. they'll be more inclined to call and slowdown and pay you off on the river as well, not putting you on quads, than they will be to call a river raise. because you're depending on UTG+1 to be trying to pull of a check raise on the turn. because you're depending on them betting into you again on the river when they may not be paired yet and get suspicious of all this calling.

it only gets easier when you miss your raise and UTG+1 does INDEED pull off his c/r.

kendal14 · #9 02-03-2005, 07:42 PM

Does going for overcalls apply here? The original bettor might drop out with 2 BB coming back at him, but UTG+1 raised and only has to call one more (which in a pot this size I think he would be committed to a showdown). And if you raise on the turn, what is to say that MP2 definitely folds?

If both the MP2 and UTG+1 call the 3-bet then I would imageine both of them are coming to showdown.

admiralfluff · #10 02-03-2005, 07:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]

With two players to act after the hero, I think this hand cries out for the 4th street call

[/ QUOTE ]

There is one player left to act after hero. With 2 I think it might be debateable.