Omaha heartbreaker (Part 1)

domester · #1 01-03-2005, 10:52 AM

I'm dealt AA35 w/ one of the A's suited, raise pre-flop and have five callers. Flop is A8T (maybe jack, but a high card nonetheless). (With what rags are these guys calling PF in that situation??) I raise an EP bet, and it's three-way action. Turn is another high card that yields a straight draw. I raise the same player's bet again; only he calls. River is a low card that makes a straight and doesn't pair the board. I figure he has the straight and probably the low, since he came out betting with two babies on the flop and called thereafter, and fold. He wins with a set of 8s and no low!! [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] Should I have made a crying call, considering the size of the pot? Did I screw up somewhere else?

Ghazban · #2 01-03-2005, 11:04 AM

It looks to me like there are 12 big bets in the pot (6 preflop, 3 on the flop, 2 on the turn, and his one on the river) at the time you folded. So you're getting 12:1 on the call with top set against what you believe to be a runner-runner straight. I can't see myself ever folding here, though I might just call instead of raising. I take it your 53 was counterfeited for the low? If you had a low here, too (even if it was mediocre), folding is an even bigger mistake.

Phat Mack · #3 01-03-2005, 01:01 PM

Did I screw up somewhere else?

Yeah, but you also did someting right: you got it heads up on the turn. Once you did that, you can go ahead and lay your hand by check/calling the river (unless, of course, you fill up, in which case you'll bet it).

I think his bet on the river makes 14 big bets in the pot. It's only 1 to call. He may have the straight, he may have a better low, but it's unlikely that he has both. He's bet, but he's never come over the top of your raises. Against some players, you could have even popped it on the end. Sure, sometimes you'll be shown a scooper--and sometimes you'll scoop, but usually you have to show down your hand against one opponent in this situation.

Beavis68 · #4 01-03-2005, 03:06 PM

Dont feel too bad, I folded a 24BB pot that I would have scooped for a single bet. Probably the biggest pot i have ever played in limit O8.

It was probably 6 months ago and it still bugs me. i knew it was a mistake as soon as I folded too.

FeliciaLee · #5 01-03-2005, 04:46 PM

What limit was this? Online or B&M? I would make that crying call almost every time. I call down a lot more in HU showdowns than multi-way showdowns.

Do you have Ray's book? That might make things much more clear to you in these situations.

Felicia [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

domester · #6 01-03-2005, 05:03 PM

Felicia,

It was 5/10 at the Taj Mahal in AC. The mantra in the Tenner/Krieger book "a bet saved is as good as bet won" just kept ringing in my head as I was thinking after the river card.

DOMIT · #7 01-03-2005, 08:29 PM

I have to agree with the others here.. you pretty much _have_ to call here.

Remember, you raised pre.. the guy is probably (although, in hind-sight, it's more like a definitely) putting you on a low hand, and A2 was counterfeited on the flop. If he was intelligent at all, he should have realized that you had AA, but that's how we make our money, thru the stupidity of others.

Also, if you read Zee's book, I'd say you pushed that AA too hard. There is a low draw out there, and you generally, (depends on the game) will not knock out low draws pumping like that, and they will often run you down, freerolling with the low. Plus, if he's betting the low draw, figuring your A2 was counterfeited, you're knocking out the others that might put more money into the pot in the case it's split. If you do read Zee, he cautions on pumping top set like that with a low draw on board.