A question for Christians AND atheists - Page 11

#**101** 12-09-2005, 04:23 PM

I think atheism is a broad idea and there are forms of it that can be classified as belief. My version, however, is non-belief. This has to do with its passive behavior, which I mentioned in another post.

#**102** 12-09-2005, 04:27 PM

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Isn't that an agnostic?

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agnostics are a subset of atheism. A-theism = lack of a belief in god. It can be chopped up various ways from there but the answer to the initial question - "Do you believe in God(of some definition naturally)" is answered "No" by an agnostic.
The second question "How do you view this topic?" is where the subsets take over.

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I think of the terms as describing two different aspects of belief -- two variables, if you will. The "theism" variable describes the objective part of the belief (god vs. "no god"), whereas the "gnosticism" variable describes the certainty with which that belief is held. Thus, you can have "agnostic Christians" and "gnostic Atheists" and everything in between.

#**103** 12-09-2005, 04:28 PM

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It would be an easy matter for God to allow everyone to believe

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God is not the cause of your unbelief.

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God is THE Ultimate Cause. All causes are under God's cause. As a Calvinist, you should know this.

#**104** 12-09-2005, 04:35 PM

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Here's a question: is atheism more of a belief or a non-belief?

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Non-belief.

Lestat · #**105** 12-09-2005, 04:44 PM

<font color="blue">So I'm against the world in which you live and breath and for the real, true world that God has created and will someday restore. </font>

I think Bin Laden feels the same way. Scary, isn't it?

revots33 · #**106** 12-09-2005, 06:33 PM

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In addition, I have an extreme distaste for religion people who only want your money. How many of you have gone to any church where they didn't want your money? I bet not a single person.

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Are you making the argument that because a church asks for donations, that's a reason to believe that god does or doesn't exist? Because that's a pretty weak case for atheism right there.

Say what you will about the Catholic Church (and I disagree with many of their positions myself), but their charities have helped millions of people in need.

I also have to argue the point made by many of the atheists that people who believe in God are so concerned with the next world that we can't fully enjoy this one. It's not true. I'm thankful for every day I'm alive.

hmkpoker · #**107** 12-09-2005, 06:44 PM

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I also have to argue the point made by many of the atheists that people who believe in God are so concerned with the next world that we can't fully enjoy this one. It's not true. I'm thankful for every day I'm alive.

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Good for you!

It's a shame that other Christians do you a disservice.

NotReady · #**108** 12-10-2005, 05:04 AM

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God is THE Ultimate Cause. All causes are under God's cause. As a Calvinist, you should know this.

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As a former Calvinist you should know the answer to this. That God is the sine qua non because without His creation there would be no creatures to sin does not relieve the creature of responsibility. God is not the proximate cause of your unbelief, nor is He responsible for it.

NotReady · #**109** 12-10-2005, 05:08 AM

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I think Bin Laden feels the same way. Scary, isn't it?

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This is a non-answer because you are against the world I live in. Does that make you Bin Laden?

#**110** 12-10-2005, 09:37 AM

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It would be an easy matter for God to allow everyone to believe

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God is not the cause of your unbelief.

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God is THE Ultimate Cause. All causes are under God's cause. As a Calvinist, you should know this.

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As a former Calvinist you should know the answer to this. That God is the sine qua non because without His creation there would be no creatures to sin does not relieve the creature of responsibility. God is not the proximate cause of your unbelief, nor is He responsible for it.

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I didn't say he was the proximate cause (we have free will), or tha He is responsible (he made us responsible by giving us free will). However, he is still the Ultimate cause. The Prime Causer.

The fact is, Calvinist doctrine states that nobody can choose to believe except that God chooses to supply his irresestible Grace to them.

So, summary: God created man, gave him free will, man sinned & can no longer love/believe in God, until God chooses to save man. So, is God the "cause" of someone's unbelief... Primarily, yes, secondarily, no, finally, yes.