3-bet/fold turn...

[Fryguy]

No reads on opponent yet. My reasoning was if my Q is good and he's semi-bluffing something, I win an extra bet. If I get 4-bet like I did here, not much chance an unknown is going to 4-bet semi-bluff, so I'm losing to almost his entire 4-bet range here, except MAYBE QT or something. I know it seems dirty to 3-bet/fold, but it actually seems right in this situation. I don't think it's right to just fold to the initial turn raise, and so the only other option is to call/call, which costs the same as 3-bet/folding, but by 3-bet/folding I win more when he doesn't have me beat and pays off.

Also by 3-betting I could scare him off of another hand and potentially win the pot right there, or show down for free if the river is ugly enough.

Thoughts?

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (3 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, SB folds.

Turn: (2.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG caps</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

[istewart]

Really don't like it. Spending a lot of bets in a small pot and not even going to showdown (the fold is clear after he caps, I'm just saying you can spend the same amount to flip up the cards).

[shadow29]

No good. Call down after the turn raise, I think. Unless you improve, of course.

[MrWookie47]

[ QUOTE ]
No good. Call down after the turn raise, I think. Unless you improve, of course.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Shillx]

Let's flip the script for a second...

Pretend that you are in position on the turn and your hand is A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. He checks, you bet, he raises and now it is your turn. This might be a good time for this play...

1) He might fold a hand that is better then A-high.

2) He will fold a hand that was outright bluffing but still has 6 outs against A-high. He might even fold a hand that has even more outs.

3) You are going to put another 2 bets into the pot if you calldown, so 3-betting costs the same. You fold to a cap and check behind UI on the end though do give up something for those times that you would have outdrawn him, but those losses are minimal compared to the upside IMO.

4) It generally makes you tougher to play against. It also makes future check/raises less common if they know that we are capable of 3-betting A-high.

This play makes no sense with top pair though...

1) He will never fold a better hand.

2) If he was bluffing he will usually be drawing to 3 outs or less. Oftentimes he will be drawing stone dead when he has nothing.

3) While it doesn't really apply to this hand, you give up on more winning chances by playing your hand this way when you already have a pair. You will sometimes have 8 or 9 outs to work with in these spots. And again you make the same when he is semi-bluffing since he will almost always follow up on the river should he miss (most players will at least).

So make plays like this either with nothing or with a big hand. It is usually best to play dumb with good hands that will fold out bluffs and lose more against monsters. Obviously you shouldn't be doing much bluff 3-betting OOP so that mainly applies for when you can just check A-high or whatever behind on the end.

Brad

[ajm36]

I'm not sure I really understand this. The turn raise tells us he is at least a pair of jacks and a big kicker (A or K?). The cap tells us he is better than a pair of jacks? Are you advocating calling the first raise and calling a river bet. Or call the turn raise and fold the river unimproved?

absolutely terrible....

call down after turn raise provided you get to the river ui

[silly_monkey]

*grunch*

I don't like this. You have a hand with decent showdown value and you should show it down. Call the turn raise and the river.