Hypothetical Questions Regarding Limit Selection

[JohnnyHumongous]

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Hi Johnny,

Great post. This is something I've pondered in my own "career" quite often. I tend to come to the conclussion that I should move up in limits, and that I'd probably make more immediately. I suspect that I'm falling into the trap of being too comfortable where I am.

For me, comfort is worth a lot, which is why I suspect I'll never make it to the highest levels of the game. I'm a very confident person and believe that I have the necessary skills to do it, but I'm just not enough of a thrill seeker to enjoy the trip. A little part of me is sad about that, but then, I also know that this game will never bust me either.


Random thoughts, take them for what you will.

thanks,
eric

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Hi Eric. Thanks for your interesting feedback. In a way it makes me feel good that poker can be so comfortable. I myself have a very stressful life outside of poker (60 hour per week job that I started about 10 weeks ago, personal ambitions like working out, entrepreneurship, social life etc.) and ironically, playing poker for thousands of dollars has become one of the LEAST stressful things in my life.

I have a habit of expecting excellence in every aspect of my life. The problem is, this can be brutally stressful and difficult if one is seeking excellence in many different areas.

I feel that if I had no other responsibilities besides poker, it would increase the likelihood of me successfully attempting to climb the rungs of the poker ladder. Right now it seems like a difficult endeavor, but in the near future it may be the case that I do put everything else aside for a while and I would be able to focus on poker (if I took a 6 month sabbatical from work in a couple years for instance).

[JohnnyHumongous]

Very interesting... I never thought of it as two different drives. But that does seem to be the truth.

Let me ask you this- do you think the top poker players (both famous players and online stars unknown to the public) would have been top at something else if they never sat down at a poker table? Was it "luck" that they found the one thing they were even capable of being world-class in? Or was it something inside them that compelled them to work toward mastery, and poker just happened to be the activity they focused this character trait on?

[Pog0]

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Let me ask you this- do you think the top poker players (both famous players and online stars unknown to the public) would have been top at something else if they never sat down at a poker table? Was it "luck" that they found the one thing they were even capable of being world-class in? Or was it something inside them that compelled them to work toward mastery, and poker just happened to be the activity they focused this character trait on?

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Sounds like it could go both ways. Whether the person's skill is the game they play or the ability to play a game (and I mean game in an extremely broad sense). I'm not going to venture at a more coherent answer, just wanted to say excellent question.

[pokernicus]

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To me people who agonize over 15 / 30 v 30 / 60 are missing the point.
*What's important is Table Selection.*


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If you look at this from the point of "skill ambition" versus "money ambition" then table selection no longer seems to matter. Ultimately I'd like to be able to sit at *any* table and eventually come out a winning player. In the short run, this might not be a +EV way of thinking from a pure financial perspective, but not everyone has this aim in poker.

If there is a very tough game at a lower limit, that's a great thing. It's a much cheaper way to learn than playing at that same table at a higher limit. Taken to an extreme, I'm sure that if the limits in the 'big game' went down by some significant factor, many people would play against the regulars just for the opportunity to experience poker at the highest levels.

[MNpoker]

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If you look at this from the point of "skill ambition" versus "money ambition" then table selection no longer seems to matter. Ultimately I'd like to be able to sit at *any* table and eventually come out a winning player. In the short run, this might not be a +EV way of thinking from a pure financial perspective, but not everyone has this aim in poker.

If there is a very tough game at a lower limit, that's a great thing. It's a much cheaper way to learn than playing at that same table at a higher limit. Taken to an extreme, I'm sure that if the limits in the 'big game' went down by some significant factor, many people would play against the regulars just for the opportunity to experience poker at the highest levels.

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"Skill ambition" and "Money ambition" are very closely correlated in your example. (As they are for most people except in rare cases - Andy Beal comes to mind)

Getting the greatest +EV (over your poker career) will necessarily involve periods where you are not maximizing short term EV.

I suggest to players who ask me and want to move up to do the following:
- Take small shots often at a higher level instead of waiting to build up a full bankroll for that level. (Say you are a 3/6 (or even a 30/60) player and want to move up.
- Don't wait until you have 300BB (or whatever) but take 10 or 15 Big Bets and go to that level when the games are soft (Friday or Saturday night most likely).
- Then go back down to your old level. It's amazing how quickly you will improve. Even though you played a -EV game for a while.
- Every time you 'take a shot' it will seem a little easier. And eventually you will have a breakthough at the new level, the game will no longer feel* above you and you will start winning to the point where that is your new level. *This is tough for most players because egos get in the way. But then again without the 'unlucky' ego driven players poker would collapse.

I love when people go on 1000BB downswings and think they are the most unlucky person in the world. It's probably true and I urge you to keep thinking that as you drop your next 1000BB's. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]