Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro's boof of tells? - Page 5

McGahee · #41 07-20-2005, 12:00 PM

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No.. Lee turned his cards over and showed her, then she said Trip Jacks.

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Anyone else remember it this way? I got the impression it was her read as well, especially given the sheepish look on his face when she said it.

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If she thought he had 3 jacks, then the 100K turn bet was pretty foolish...

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Lee's mini-turn raise (after her bet) was a big piece of the puzzle, and she immediately mucked.

On another note I thought Lee played well on the hand he busted Bellande on. The other players were reading his slowplays easily like the KK hand and the large bet on the turned wheel really threw off Bellande I think.

Jim T · #42 07-20-2005, 12:09 PM

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No.. Lee turned his cards over and showed her, then she said Trip Jacks.

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Anyone else remember it this way? I got the impression it was her read as well, especially given the sheepish look on his face when she said it.

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If she thought he had 3 jacks, then the 100K turn bet was pretty foolish...

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Lee's mini-turn raise (after her bet) was a big piece of the puzzle, and she immediately mucked.

On another note I thought Lee played well on the hand he busted Bellande on. The other players were reading his slowplays easily like the KK hand and the large bet on the turned wheel really threw off Bellande I think.

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She only started out the hand with about 400K, so his 200,000 bet indicated that she would be all-in at some point in the hand. He should have just gone all-in, but I think that he was trying to "show weakness".

She just made a stab at the pot on the turn with nothing, I'm sure intending to give up if called or raised. Her actions are perfectly understandable without taking reads into account. If she'd actually had a good read on him that hand, then she wouldn't have made the bet.

Uppercut · #43 07-20-2005, 12:32 PM

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????? Why the hostility? Hold me.

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FYP [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

tipperdog · #44 07-20-2005, 01:00 PM

I'm surprised that no one has commented on the most obvious tell of the evening. Holding the 2nd nut straight when a blank hits the river, Lee shakes his hand, groans, and checks discouragedly, hoping to induce a bluff from Gabe Thaler. Seeing the classic "weak when strong" tell, Thaler checks behind.

Even I would have picked up on that tell, and I suck.

Smoothcall · #45 07-20-2005, 01:05 PM

????

Smoothcall · #46 07-20-2005, 01:08 PM

And he also had a tell that lee was weak on the turn. He said i knew you had nothing. Granted sometimes guys just say this. But he did call the turn with nothing.

Iconoclastic · #47 07-20-2005, 01:26 PM

That was a terrible play by Doug, tellbox or not. The only way Thaler would bet is if he had absolutely nothing and needed to steal the pot or if he had a good hand and value bet the River. But Gabe showed no real strength on previous streets so what were the chances the River helped him or he had a made monster? And what were the chances Gabe had nothing if he called (was it the Flop or the Turn?). He should have value bet the River there.

Army Eye · #48 07-20-2005, 01:38 PM

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That was a terrible play by Doug, tellbox or not. The only way Thaler would bet is if he had absolutely nothing and needed to steal the pot or if he had a good hand and value bet the River. But Gabe showed no real strength on previous streets so what were the chances the River helped him or he had a made monster? And what were the chances Gabe had nothing if he called (was it the Flop or the Turn?). He should have value bet the River there.

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Turned out to be a correct check on the river because Gabe DID have nothing. There was probably no way to squeeze any more chips out of Gabe on that hand but checking and not giving an obvious tell was the best chance of doing so.

freekobe · #49 07-20-2005, 02:42 PM

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That was a terrible play by Doug, tellbox or not. The only way Thaler would bet is if he had absolutely nothing and needed to steal the pot or if he had a good hand and value bet the River. But Gabe showed no real strength on previous streets so what were the chances the River helped him or he had a made monster? And what were the chances Gabe had nothing if he called (was it the Flop or the Turn?). He should have value bet the River there.

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This is wrong. First of all, to correct a previous poster, I'm 99% sure Lee had the nut straight (8-Q). Second, with such a scary board (I believe it was 6 8 9 10 x), there is no way Thaler calls any meaningful bet without having a straight himself. The only way for Lee to win something on the river there is to induce a bluff. He tried and it didn't work out.

I do agree that the shaking of the head was awful.

Jackal · #50 07-20-2005, 03:11 PM

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Definently positive that Lee flipped over his cards.. I remember him doing it, and Harman wasn't even paying attention for a bit (she was playing with her chips or something), and then she finally looked up and saw it and said, "Trip Jacks" and nodded her head in a matter of fact manner.

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You are definitely wrong. I have it taped on DVR and just went back to double-check. First, Lee never actually flips his cards and in any case, Jen calls "trip jacks" long before he would have even had a chance to flip his cards. Moot point though, as other people have mentioned, if she actually HAD a good read she wouldn't have bet 100k on the turn, just like she would have pushed in (or at least raised) with AK on the previous hand when she "claimed" Lee and Thaler were weak. People talk all the time at tables and if you guess enough, you will eventually be right some of the time. Again, she's a good enough player that she would GO with her read if she actually had a good one.

Oh and i noticed people conveniently forget that Jen was all-in against Lee with Q7 vs Q9 on the hand right before the QQ vs 910 and sucked out on him.