third to the flush falls on the river

tylerdurden · #1 04-26-2005, 10:03 PM

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, Hero calls, 2 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, UTG+1 calls, MP2 folds, Hero calls.

River: (7.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, UTG+1 raises, Hero folds, SB calls.

Final Pot: 11.50 BB

No reads, UTG+1 just sat down. I wanted to fold the turn, but didn't. So I river two pair, but UTG+1 suddenly wakes up when the third heart falls. Good fold?

irishpint · #2 04-26-2005, 10:10 PM

thats why I raise this preflop from late position, i want those flush draws to pay if they are going to play. Id probably raise the flop, too. Am I making the odds better for these stupid draws to stay in? I think I call the river, but we'd have a better idea if utg1 has a flush if we raised the flop. Calling one bet on a BDFD is one thing, calling 2 is another.

TheDudeChad · #3 04-26-2005, 10:29 PM

Newbie here so don't expect much.

Personally, I would call in this spot. UTG+1 waking up does not always mean he has made a flush, especially since the flush was backdoor. UTG+1 could possibly have a straight with KQ, but it is more likely he has A5, A2, AT, Ax [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], or maybe just Ax. I'd call here expecting to win about half the time. SB will most likely overcall as well.

Jacob_Gilliam · #4 04-26-2005, 10:43 PM

Id also call here. you may be beaten but theres also a strong likelyhood that youll win against Ax.
Theres no point to raising on the flop because youre the last to go and everyone has already called one bet so theyll call one more. Plus, if small blind reraises youre probably way behind.

wrto4556 · #5 04-26-2005, 11:04 PM

Raise preflop

Yako · #6 04-26-2005, 11:35 PM

1) Raise Pre-flop
2) Raise the flop, and if your hand doesn't improve on the turn, check for the free card. If you get 3bet, call, and fold the turn unimproved (unless the pot is more than 10BB when it gets to you, then you HAVE to call). I think you have to call the river, but I'm not too sure. Refusing to fold the river in situations like these could possibly be one of my leaks. Luckily I steal enough pots on the flop/turn to make up for this...

EDIT: The pot is big, aggression pays. Raising the flop is about getting a free card to win the pot, not about protecting your hand.

2nd EDIT: OMG, the flush draw was backdoored. This makes a call 89 000 000 000 times easier. Consider folding if the original bettor 3bets and the raiser just calls, and definitely fold if it gets capped before it gets to you.

Paradigm · #7 04-26-2005, 11:59 PM

I also call the river. I think Aces Up is good too many times here.

tylerdurden · #8 04-27-2005, 01:17 AM

You guys nailed it. I folded the winner. UTG+1 showed Ax and took it down. Shoot me in the head, please.

NickRegino · #9 04-27-2005, 01:56 AM

if you really wanted to be aggressive you should raise the flop in hopes that you will be heads up to increase the chance of you winning, but in a lot of small stakes games its not odd for people to go runner runner for something, it happens all the time, the reason for that might be your aggression. Be aggressive and still play wise, know when to fold and it will make you a better player!!

aK13 · #10 04-27-2005, 02:30 AM

I raise the flop. SB being the leading bettor, you can't really protect your hand. You'll also get some information about everyone else's hand. I don't think I'd be very afraid of a flush, considering it was 2 running cards.