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#11
08-25-2005, 02:39 PM
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Re: dealing with minraises against your BB @ later levels (55s)
I would definitely call preflop, and then decide how I'm going to play the flop based on the flop texture and opponent. On most flops I'd lead out with a bet. If I flop a draw I will check raise. If the flop comes really nasty, check-fold.
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#12
08-25-2005, 02:44 PM
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Re: dealing with minraises against your BB @ later levels (55s)
I think calling is much better than coming over the top. A typical button will call your all in with a lot of hands. Also, if he does happen to have a monster you can get away from it by just calling and playing the flop. Most times he will fold to your bet on the flop when his A3 doesn't hit anything.
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#13
08-25-2005, 02:54 PM
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Re: dealing with minraises against your BB @ later levels (55s)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I like to call here, and being first to act, bet out about 1/2 the pot no matter what the flop. I'd like to hear some input on this as well. [/ QUOTE ] This is terrible imo. You have < 10bb after posting, and if your continuation/probe bet fails, you have just lost almost 1/2 of your stack. If you want to make a stand, push over the top and take it down. This kind of weak blind defense is really easy to pick up on and play back at. [/ QUOTE ] As far as coming over the top. . . let's say you've just pushed 2 of the last 4 hands. . . that makes me less inclined to push here, figuring big stack might look me up. I disagree with your point about this being weak blind defense. . . I think this is quite the contrary. It would be weak to call the raise, then check/fold to the raiser, but by leading out I think we win this pot often enough to make it profitable, PLUS discourage future steals. Think of it like this. . . When you steal w/ more than 10BB's, do YOU minraise? Why not? Isn't it because you don't want to give the BB odds to call w/ any 2? So if it's the other way around. . . shouldn't you use your opponent's mistake against him?
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#14
08-25-2005, 03:01 PM
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Re: dealing with minraises against your BB @ later levels (55s)
Absolutely right, you will win the pot often enough to make this play profitable. Occasionally, you will run into a hand and have to let it go, but villain is not going to call your flop bet unless he has hit. You need to take that chance.
Pre-flop you are ony a 65% to 35% underdog to A-K if you hold 8-4 offsuit, so even the preflop call is ok.
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#15
08-25-2005, 03:07 PM
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Re: dealing with minraises against your BB @ later levels (55s)
However, if he lays it down this time on the flop, the next time he does this he will have a hand he's willing to push with.
Unless he's a donk, but by this time you should have a read on him.
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#16
08-25-2005, 05:23 PM
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Re: dealing with minraises against your BB @ later levels (55s)
[ QUOTE ]
Absolutely right, you will win the pot often enough to make this play profitable. Occasionally, you will run into a hand and have to let it go, but villain is not going to call your flop bet unless he has hit. You need to take that chance. Pre-flop you are ony a 65% to 35% underdog to A-K if you hold 8-4 offsuit, so even the preflop call is ok. [/ QUOTE ] I think I have to call you out on your logic in the last part of your post. being a 65/35 dog preflop does not justify you calling the PF raise. You're a 65/35 dog for the entire hand. If by calling, you were all-in, and would get to see the river, then you may be getting the right odds. You can't use those numbers and ignore the imminent post flop bets you would have to call.
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#17
08-25-2005, 05:49 PM
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Re: dealing with minraises against your BB @ later levels (55s)
With your worthless hand here, I'd let this go without a second though. If it continues, re-steal push.
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#18
08-25-2005, 05:54 PM
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Re: dealing with minraises against your BB @ later levels (55s)
[ QUOTE ]
Absolutely right, you will win the pot often enough to make this play profitable. Occasionally, you will run into a hand and have to let it go, but villain is not going to call your flop bet unless he has hit. You need to take that chance. Pre-flop you are ony a 65% to 35% underdog to A-K if you hold 8-4 offsuit, so even the preflop call is ok. [/ QUOTE ] It seems that you are assuming that the button is minraising with any 2 in this spot, and will always lay down without a pair. What happens when he has overcards, or a draw, and decided to see a turn since he has enough chips? And being a 35% underdog to AK makes the preflop call okay, what??? What about the rest of his hand range, and the fact that you're out of position.
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#19
08-25-2005, 06:02 PM
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Re: dealing with minraises against your BB @ later levels (55s)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Absolutely right, you will win the pot often enough to make this play profitable. Occasionally, you will run into a hand and have to let it go, but villain is not going to call your flop bet unless he has hit. You need to take that chance. Pre-flop you are ony a 65% to 35% underdog to A-K if you hold 8-4 offsuit, so even the preflop call is ok. [/ QUOTE ] I think I have to call you out on your logic in the last part of your post. being a 65/35 dog preflop does not justify you calling the PF raise. You're a 65/35 dog for the entire hand. If by calling, you were all-in, and would get to see the river, then you may be getting the right odds. You can't use those numbers and ignore the imminent post flop bets you would have to call. [/ QUOTE ] You can still hit your hand. If the flop were to come something like 8-2-10, you are likely ahead. You're probably even ahead on something like 10-7-4. Also, to have called a raise shows strength, a willingness to play, he doesn't know what you have, make him pay to find out. You go all-in, it's an "I hope you go away" move. Obviously, more than one way to play this.
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#20
08-25-2005, 06:11 PM
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Re: dealing with minraises against your BB @ later levels (55s)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Absolutely right, you will win the pot often enough to make this play profitable. Occasionally, you will run into a hand and have to let it go, but villain is not going to call your flop bet unless he has hit. You need to take that chance. Pre-flop you are ony a 65% to 35% underdog to A-K if you hold 8-4 offsuit, so even the preflop call is ok. [/ QUOTE ] It seems that you are assuming that the button is minraising with any 2 in this spot, and will always lay down without a pair. What happens when he has overcards, or a draw, and decided to see a turn since he has enough chips? And being a 35% underdog to AK makes the preflop call okay, what??? What about the rest of his hand range, and the fact that you're out of position. [/ QUOTE ] If he has a draw or overcards, then it is a mistake for him to call the flop. The AK was an example, he could have anything, from AA-72, but A-K is just something I used as an example. Like the OP said, this is a common ocurrance. He could be raising with any two cards just to steal the blinds at this stage, and to wittle his opponents down. Good discussion, that's why poker's fun, everyone plays different.
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