Misapplication of Small Stakes Hold 'em or okay?

Tru · #1 10-29-2004, 12:03 PM

Should I not be pushing so hard considering that we're not talking about a nut flush draw? Is there still value in my raise on the turn?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Button calls, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG+1 3-bets, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, Button calls, Hero caps, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls, Button calls.

Turn: (11.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, MP3 calls, Button calls, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls, Button calls.

River: (19.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls, Button folds.

Final Pot: 22.50 BB

chson · #2 10-29-2004, 12:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Should I not be pushing so hard considering that we're not talking about a nut flush draw? Is there still value in my raise on the turn?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Button calls, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG+1 3-bets, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, Button calls, Hero caps, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls, Button calls.

Turn: (11.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, MP3 calls, Button calls, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls, Button calls.

River: (19.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls, Button folds.

Final Pot: 22.50 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

You played it just fine.

Michael Davis · #3 10-29-2004, 12:18 PM

Your flop play is fine, but it always gets dangerous with these baby flushes.

The turn raise is really bad. There is very little reason for it. You are only charging yourself extra money to draw.

-Michael

lu_hawk · #4 10-29-2004, 12:18 PM

don't c/r the turn.

chesspain · #5 10-29-2004, 12:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
don't c/r the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

What he said.

Tru · #6 10-29-2004, 12:28 PM

What if I was instead holding A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]?
Is the check turn raise permissable then?

Thanks,
Tru

StellarWind · #7 10-29-2004, 12:28 PM

You went a little too far by checkraising the turn.

You are slightly better than 3-1 to complete your draw. In theory you are making a tiny amount of money by raising with three callers, except ...

1. Someone might fold.

2. Your flush might not be good.

3. UTG+1 might 3-bet and force you to pay another bet while the field folds.

4. Your display of strength may convince players not to call your river bet after you make your hand.

chesspain · #8 10-29-2004, 12:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What if I was instead holding A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]?
Is the check turn raise permissable then?

[/ QUOTE ]

No

Michael Davis · #9 10-29-2004, 12:33 PM

See StellarWind's post. The biggest problem is getting threebet.

-Michael

StellarWind · #10 10-29-2004, 12:34 PM

I would checkraise with A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Compared to the actual deal:

1. My flush outs are cleaner.

2. The ace overcard adds equity to my draw.

3. Any folds I cause may help me because I have an overcard ace with no kicker.

But I would have tried to pick those aces off early by betting the flop.