This whole hand felt weird

ggbman · #1 11-10-2005, 07:00 PM

Villians are fine, nothing special but they dont suck.

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (6 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, Button 3-bets, 1 fold, BB caps, Hero calls, Button calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB bets, Hero calls, Button raises, BB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (9.25 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, Button bets, BB folds, Hero calls.

River: (11.25 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13.25 BB

This river is an easy payoff right? What about raising somewhere earlier in the hand so i can potentially fold the river/get more when ahead?

limon · #2 11-10-2005, 07:11 PM

due to the fact that the button raised a protected pot on the flop you're pretty much relegated to call down mode. most times the best play is the simplest.

TStoneMBD · #3 11-11-2005, 07:43 AM

i agree with your line entirely but calling down does feel weird.

dealer_toe · #4 11-11-2005, 07:46 AM

yea its kinda like kissing your sister, but I like it.

...the hand...I like the hand.

Given where you opened, your opponents hand range is much larger for how they played it. I think its ok to call this down.

Enon · #5 11-11-2005, 08:05 AM

I think river is interesting street considering the line you took. Hard to advocate fold because there are enough combinations of hands that you are beating or chopping KT, KQ diamonds, AQ, AJ but man, its a real real longshot that AQ or AJ would raise a protected pot on flop AFTER bb caps prelop.

My gut tells me river is real real close between fold and call so why not get some info on villain and call. Maybe he got way out of line with A8 or some other trash.

This is one of those situations where I wish I could do those fancy math involved hand ranges with weighted probabilies.

Brom · #6 11-11-2005, 11:18 AM

Would button reraise Axs to the preflop steal? It seems to me like he could easily play A8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] this way. I don't know if it's in his hand range however. I also wouldn't put KJ or KQ past him.

If these hand ranges are possible then I think I'd prefer a bet/call on the river. If you bet the river and he has a worse Ace, it could look to him like like you had a strong King that you didn't want checked through, therefore he is quite likely to raise a worse Ace. If he has some sort of hand with a King in it, it might look to him like you have a weak Ace due to your calldown mode. He would probably check behind with it, but also call if you bet.

I seem to think that you should be getting three bets in on the big streets (or at least more than one if he is going to check behind on the river). You shouldn't open yourself up to anything fancy on the turn, so the river seems the best place to bet out IMO. You said they don't suck, but I feel your nut trips is ahead here enough of the time to bet this.

MNpoker · #7 11-11-2005, 12:08 PM

Warning - I have zero ability to lay this hands down on the river. So I guess that answers the 'do I lay this down on the river part'.

On the Play of the hand:

1) I bet this turn - I don't like to give away free cards.

2a) If button raises and BB reraises: FOLD
2b) If button raises and BB calls: Call
2c) IF button raises and BB folds: Call

3d) If button calls and BB raises: Fold
3e) If button calls and BB calls:
3f) IF button calls and BB folds:

4g) If button folds and BB raises: ICK (fold is probably correct - But I may payoff)
4h) If button folds and BB calls
4i) If button folds and BB folds: scoop the chips in

I'm check / calling the river for: 2b, 2c, 3e

Bet / Call raise - 3f

Call if bet to otherwise bet - 4h

DonCaspero · #8 11-11-2005, 12:11 PM

You've done nothing but raise in a steal position and check/call the whole way on a draw heavy board - folding is not an option. I like a call better than a raise. Bet/call is also an option, but is player dependent.

steveyz · #9 11-11-2005, 01:25 PM

I'd raise the flop and call down a 3-bet. If Button cold calls the flop, maybe I check call the turn.

ggbman · #10 11-11-2005, 02:57 PM

Really steve? I have the gutterball here, but i have to think that there are soooo many hands that are going to 3 bet me here that raising the flop would not be correct?