I'm going to..

[aslowjoe]

How did you research that? I can't find a setting that would do that.

[surfdoc]

Count me in.

[cartman]

Your post is VERY important, I believe. I feel like a moron time after time calling in this situation, but I always reason that to fold for one more bet in a pot that big would be a mistake, or at least nearly a mistake. But to call a 1 in 15 shot when getting 9 to 1 is a 1/3 big bet mistake every time you do it!

<font color="blue">How do you feel about the similar situation when you are out of position and bet the river with top pair and get raised?

Also, how did you search your database for these situations?</font>

If a bunch of posters spent some time doing this, we may be able to get a pretty solid sample size. Although it would be a rough estimate, we may be able to conclude something like ("Absent of a read, it is a reasonable estimate that at 10/20 6-max, TPTK will be good around 1 time in 15).


Thanks,
Cartman

[CanKid]

Just the other day, 5/10 short, I open raise aqo, blinds call, Q high flop, check to me both call, turn is brick, check to me both call, river is brick, check to me, first guy calls, 2nd guy check raises, i call, other guy folds, river check raiser had KQ and MHWG.

[marand]

[ QUOTE ]
Your post is VERY important, I believe. I feel like a moron time after time calling in this situation, but I always reason that to fold for one more bet in a pot that big would be a mistake, or at least nearly a mistake. But to call a 1 in 15 shot when getting 9 to 1 is a 1/3 big bet mistake every time you do it!

<font color="blue">How do you feel about the similar situation when you are out of position and bet the river with top pair and get raised?

Also, how did you search your database for these situations?</font>

If a bunch of posters spent some time doing this, we may be able to get a pretty solid sample size. Although it would be a rough estimate, we may be able to conclude something like ("Absent of a read, it is a reasonable estimate that at 10/20 6-max, TPTK will be good around 1 time in 15).


Thanks,
Cartman

[/ QUOTE ]

That sounds reasonable until some 2+2ers start check/raising the river against you with busted hands just because they know you will fold top pair [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[cartman]

You are so right, but I don't think that falls under the "absent a read..." heading. Against a guy who I think is capable of check-raising the river with less than top pair, obviously I would estimate my hand to be good far more often than it would be against an unknown.

I think this is similar to the heads up call flop, call turn, bet river and fold to a raise with KK on an A high board against a preflop raiser situation. This is not a good line against a one of the 2+2 faithful who knows that I might take this line and is consequently more likely to bluff raise in this spot than a typical opponent.

Cartman

[helpmeout]

Once people start seeing you folding to river check/raises they may take shots at you.

This will cost you much more than the -0.3BB(made up) or so you lose from calling checkraises all the time (except when superpassive does it and you fold).

All it takes is a couple of decent sized pots and you are way behind.

I think you just have to balance it so people know that you arent going to fold to river checkraises unless you have a weak hand.

[wonkadaddy]

[ QUOTE ]
Once people start seeing you folding to river check/raises they may take shots at you.

This will cost you much more than the -0.3BB(made up) or so you lose from calling checkraises all the time (except when superpassive does it and you fold).

All it takes is a couple of decent sized pots and you are way behind.

I think you just have to balance it so people know that you arent going to fold to river checkraises unless you have a weak hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree, i would make this play early in a session once and then not again. (see if it induces any bluffs)

[imitation]

Idea (controversial): If you guys didn't play so many marginal and i'll say it [censored] starting hands you wouldn't have to pay off so many TPxK hands on the river.