I need to be more aggressive

[richie]

Hi, I currently play 2/4 online and do reasonably well IMO. I have around 200hrs of play and make ~2.5 BB/hr. My problem is I don't feel I'm aggressive enough, and I can't seem to change my passive play. I currently raise pre-flop around 4%, which seems low compared to others here on this forum. I probably don't raise or bet enough, either. I feel like a total weak-tight wuss. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] On the other hand, I'm winning, so it's hard to change my old habits. Anybody have the same feelings (problems) or is it just me?

Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated.

[gonores]

If you're happy making 10 bucks an hour (keep in mind your hand total is not statistically significant yet, so that $10 number may drop a bit), then by all means feel free to keep playing this way. There is no rule out there that says you have to play in a way that maximizes your winnings (although that is the goal for which most of us strive). If your assessment of your play is accurate, then any change you make to your game will be to loosen up and/or play more aggressively. Naturally, that means that any increase to your win rate is going to increase your risk and you standard deviation. When you start becoming dissatisfied with your $10/hr win rate, you'll talk yourself into playing with more aggression. You'll learn that it's ok to raise with a hand and then lose with it...it happens alot.

Or I could just tell you to start playing like a man and berate you with a barage of insults until you finally play aggressively.

Doug

[SevenStuda]

Try to cut back on your demanding masturbation schedule, lack of testoterone has been linked to passive play.

[Griffin]

Anybody have the same feelings (problems) or is it just me?

Hi richie,

I'm right there with you. I've played 250 hours at 1/2 and make 3.5bb/hr and have about 200 hours at 2/4 making 2bb/hr. Based on what people say about win rates, I consider those to be decent, despite the fact that I also play very weak, especially post-flop.

I've been putting a lot of thought into this lately as right now my most important concern is learning correct play. Like Warik, I have a goal of making $10,000 this year, but that's only a background goal. My real goal is to know when to execute certain moves for the right reasons.

Regarding being a tight-passive (or tight-weak) player, the thing I've determined is that it leads to invisible mistakes and to a semi-false sense of success. The invisible mistakes refer to the fact that passive or weak play usually means folding winners or not betting/raising so as to extract the maximum. These mistakes are usually hidden in that we don't know that we folded a winner if there is no showdown, so we may think we made a good fold when in fact it was a weak, losing fold. Also, when we do take a pot, we don't always see all the places where we could have extracted more bets.

The fact that at low limits this type of play can still lead to a positive win rate gives us a false sense of success. Yes, we are beating the rake and them some, but could we make even more if we played more aggressively?

I posted that question in another thread, and the answer I got was "Yes, you could make more with aggressive play." In reality, I still wonder about how much post-flop aggression is appropriate at low limits. I'm hoping some of the statistical analyses discussed in that thread is done to help solidify the answer.

As for me, and any other tight-passive player, I think the reason to learn to be more aggressive is to learn the proper play for higher stakes. Even if tight-passive were correct for 1/2 or 2/4 stakes, I hope to play 5/10 someday, and I know it won't work there. It's better to practice aggression while the price of the bets is cheaper.

Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated.

What I've done is drop down to 1/2 stakes while I practice on tightening up some of my preflop leaks AND practice making more aggressive moves. The lower stakes make it psychologically easier to "make that raise". The downside is that at lower stakes, aggression is less likely to work as intended. That is why I am NOT focusing on the results of the hand or session to evaluate my performance. Instead, I'll look at whether the bet/raise was theoretically correct. Even if it doesn't work here at low stakes, I'm training myself to make the correct moves for when I do move up in stakes.

I've just started this, so I can't report on how it is working. I know to expect an increase in SD, but I hope to see an increase in win rate as well.


If anyone else has suggestions on how to move from tight-weak to tight-aggressive, we're listening.

[Mike]

I don't play online, so my thinking may not apply. What I think is being aggressive may be maniac play to you, or maybe even mildy passive.

Perhaps an idea to keep in mind is when you have a strong hand are charging what the traffic will bear? If five players call your bet, but three or four will call your raise, raising is the right play. If you play agressive and they play passive or fold, then you may wish to tone it down a little.

It is difficult to keep the right mix of passive agressive play for any length of time. You want player B to call you, but you know if you raise he will fold. If you just call player C will also call and you want him out of the hand.

You are making money at the moment, so what is more important, being the Baddest Dog on the table or the one with the fastest growing stacks? I think someone part of 2+2 mentioned in an essay or post that new players tend to become overly agressive.

[Mike Gallo]

Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated.

Post the specific hands where you think you did not play aggressive enough.

[skaboomizzy]

I'm in the same sort of situation as you.

I re-read some of my Theory of Poker book today for the first time in a couple months (shame on me, I know), and realized that I virtually NEVER semi-bluff. I'm sure that's costing me lots of money in folded pots and possible "suck-outs", especially since I'm focusing on SNGs for the moment.

I play pretty small stakes, so I walk a really fine line in terms of strategy. I can't really bluff a lot since I'll always get called down, but I find myself going into a shell pretty often too. Oh well, I'm sure I'll work it out. Some trips to the Seminole casino before I go to Vegas in August should help me loosen up.

[pretender2k]

I have had the same feelings at times. One of the things beyond reading that I do is play some more aggressive games once in awhile. I don't have a huge bankroll so I usually go to Ultimate Bet or Stars and play the .01/.02 NL holdem and lately I have been playing some .1/.25 PL omaha 8/b at UB. That seems to help. I don't risk much maybe $10 and if I loose it all I right it off to learning expense and go back to the limit games to get it back. One lucky night I made $50 playing the omaha though. That helps [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]