raising for information..

[Joe826]

Sklansky says this is something that should be used sparingly. What do you all think? I find myself wanting to raise for information all the time. If I have a PP and there is one overcard out there i'll often times raise and fold to a 3-bet. The problem with this approach is often times the original bettor will get spooked and check/call to the river, in which case you've just given away a bet of some size if he has the TP as opposed to calling him down. Where do you guys use this sort of play? Is there anything way to avoid the problem i'm having in my example? Thanks.

Joe

[sthief09]

I used to 3-bet or raising "for information" a lot. Unfortunately, there are 3 major problems (that I can think of) to this: (1) your opponent folds a bluff, (2) your opponent calls the flop then raises you on the turn, (3) your opponent calls you down with a better hand.

Consequently, you lose a ton of bets when you're behind, and win very few when you're actually ahead. I often find when I'm in certain situations, generally headsup, I'll just call down. This is something I just recently added and it's often your best line of defense. You'll win around the same (sometimes more, sometimes less) when you're ahead and usually lose much less when you're behind.

If you post some hands, it'll be easier to respond.

[Joe Tall]

This topic has been covered extenisively in the past. Try a seach for the post title and combinations, thereof.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[LetsRock]

[ QUOTE ]
The problem with this approach is often times the original bettor will get spooked and check/call to the river, in which case you've just given away a bet of some size if he has the TP as opposed to calling him down.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a little confused by this logic - him calling you down is the same number of bets as you calling him down. If you take the lead, you increase your chances of winning by getting him to fold the winner.

I tend to use the "raise for info" more when I have TPWK or TPGK when there has been a PFR. I'll use it more when there are still others in the pot and I want to thin the field. If I can make it 2 to go for all the limpers, it's pretty normal for most of them to go away ("That guy raised before the flop and now this guy is raising him? I'm outta here.")
Doesn't always work, of course, but it works enough to be worth it.

I don't automatically fold to a 3-bet since many of these guys will pump you back to represent a big hand, when they may only have overcards - it's just part of the dialog.

In general, I don't raise for info with #2 pr. An exception to this would be when I've been running very hot, haven't been busted trying to buy a pot recently and the table is giving me a little too much respect.

I'll often lead with it, but I'll usually call and hope for help if someone leads into me when I have #2 or #3 pair. Of course, depending on the board and what the #2 pair is, I may very well just let the hand go.

[Styles]

[ QUOTE ]
This topic has been covered extenisively in the past. Try a seach for the post title and combinations, thereof.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[/ QUOTE ]


once this week, even.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...mp;sb=5&o=

Must be a hot topic on another board [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

FWIW Phil's book is full of these types of raises ...

[MaxPower]

You have figured out the problem with the notion of raising for information. You usually do not get any reliable information. You should almost never raise solely for information.

I think the thread below will help you. In it, Ed Miller discusses your question. There is also an example similar to your example discussed in the thread.


Ed Miller's post

Oh, and there is also this essay by this guy named Sklansky

Sklansky's essay

[Joe826]

Thanks for the replies guys, sorry about the double post.