6-max beginner needs help with a couple hands

[@bsolute_luck]

new to 6-max and can't figure things out. a couple hands.

Hand #1
SB is loose doofus. blind defends any 2 cards. calls down any pair.

BB passive preflop, aggressive post. typical moves seem to be: donkbet on draws, either c/r flop or waits 'til turn on flopped TP.

sadly my table image is probably: aggressive preflop, weak-tight postflop [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Hero is UTG A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Preflop
<font color="red">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
<font color="red">BB bets</font>, <font color="blue">Hero...??</font>


Hand #2
UTG: passive preflop, aggressive postflop
SB: another "wait 'til turn to c/r"-type, loose in the blinds, tight otherwise.

Hero is Button J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Preflop
UTG limps, folded around, <font color="red">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

Flop 8SB: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
<font color="red">UTG bets, Hero raises</font>, SB cold calls, <font color="red">UTG 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

I'll stop there because my question is: too aggressive?

[LesWormMurphy]

Sort of depends, sort of doesn't.

Hand 1:
Generally, a lot has to do with your particular read of the player but the pot contains only 6 small bets in it. Ace-high will be the best hand against 3 players more often than it will be against 5-7, but in a pot this small, chasing down less than 7 outs (because middle pair won't win often)I would suggest a fold. Protect your hand when the pot is big, not when you've got Ace-high, and are playing against a passive PF player who called a raise.

Hand 2:
I don't think it was too aggressive, I think your play was fine on the flop. Though you do not have the NUT flush draw, you still have a flush draw with an overcard, but most importantly you have a draw that will come in 35% of the time, so you want to build this pot. In a full table I wouldn't advise this with only a jack-high flush but this is 6-handed, so a jack-high flush is a very good hand.


I don't play 6-max, but that's my advice anyhow.

Take care, pal.

[MrWookie47]

Hand 1: This is one of the toughest spots for new 6 max players, and it happens all the time. The fact of the matter is, you're probably drawing to roughly 3 outs, and you're getting 7:1. I think this is a fold. If BB starts doing this every time, well, you'll have a hand sometimes, and then you can see how he reacts. If he shows down, note what he had. If he bet/folds, consider throwing in a raise as a bluff very occasionlly, but because somtimes he'll have a hand too, don't overdo it. It sucks, but you can't steal every time you try, and you can't pick it up on the flop every time if you didn't steal.

Hand 2: I'd just call the first time around. You want SB to stick around to maintain the equity edge on your flush draw. Once UTG 3bets, you have to start thinking about if he has 2 pair or a set, so your equity edge my not actually be there. Calling is good.

[McGahee]

You're going to be raising a lot PF in 6-max. When you don't hit flops, it's not hard to develop a weak-tight postflop image vs. aggro villians. That is why table selection and passive opponents rule so much. This is true for poker, but especially SH games.

Anyway I definitely like my hand enough to make a stand in Hand #1 if I feel like I'm on the verge of getting run over. Given your reads this is an easy flop raise IMO. I want SB to face 2 cold and fold any T, J, or K. There's a good chance BB doesn't have a Q and is just betting a low pair or straight draw, so you're probably not going to get 3-bet and if he picks up something on the turn he'll probably C/R instead of bet. If you spike an A or 9 bet the turn and the river. If you pick up nothing, bet the turn and check the river UI. If you pick up a 7, 8, or [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] on the turn, take the free card and call his river bet.

Hand #2 - stop the action after "Hero raises" because it provokes biased responses when you get 3-bet. But 3-bet or no 3-bet, I don't like the raise because I want the overcall with a 4-flush and questionable pair outs.

[Dave G.]

I'd raise the flop in hand 1. In 6 max blind play becomes much more important. If you've been backing down on a lot of flops and they've noticed this, the non-passive opponents will definitely use this against you. Fire in a raise, see what he does. You may get a free card on the turn but you may want to bet again there too.

If nothing else, your raise will let BB know that he can't just bet at you like this whenever he pleases. If you fold regularly in these spots he'll be taking shots at you all day. Since he's directly to your right, he's going to be a big problem for you if he thinks he can take shots at you freely.

I don't mind the flop raise in hand 2. Originally I wanted just a call, but I think a raise is fine if you think you can get a free card here often enough to be worth it. Facing SB with 2 cold isn't good, but a lot of people will call 2 cold at 6 max anyway. Once UTG 3-bets you might as well cap it, you've got enough equity to do so and it will disguise your hand as something like AA, which may or may not be useful.

[benkath1]

With your read, I might peel hand one.

Hand two, I cap this flop. He might have a ten and be pumping it hard, but you have a fair amount of outs and equity to proceed with confidence.

[@bsolute_luck]

[ QUOTE ]
With your read, I might peel hand one.

[/ QUOTE ]

what are you looking for or not looking for by peeling? what cards would convince you to continue because i will tell you i'm pretty confident BB will fire again whether he is bluffing or not.

oh and what do you think BB has based on my read?

[benkath1]

[ QUOTE ]
BB passive preflop, aggressive post. typical moves seem to be: donkbet on draws, either c/r flop or waits 'til turn on flopped TP.

[/ QUOTE ]

With what you've said, I would rule out a Q. If he is always trying to be tricky like that. He may have a 5 or a 6, but I would think he's donk betting a draw. If he flopped a Q and has FPS, then I would think he's check raising this flop. If he has one of the 2 undercards, you have 2 overs and a bdfd. If a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] come you're really happy. If he is pumping a 78, you're happy to have one of his str8 outs. He might be betting A high and hoping to scare you off yours, but I doubt it.

If you are confident on your read thus far, I'm torn between calling and raising. I don't think I'm folding just yet.

[@bsolute_luck]

okay thanks for your guys' input.

Hand #1

i folded because i did fear the Q just because i'm not used to getting donkbet into on a draw and i wasn't sure what to do. after thinking about the hand, if i was to continue, i'd raise to get SB out of the hand. the difficulty i guess then is if he cold calls and the turn is a blank. i'm assuming i should check/fold?

Results:
Turn 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
SB checks, <font color="red">BB bets</font>, SB calls

River Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
SB checks, <font color="red">BB bets</font>, SB calls

BB flips over JTo
SB flips 62o for the flopped pair [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]


Hand #2
i messed up the river. i did cap it [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]..which some thought a good idea, so maybe i'm not 100% wrong [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] i figured if SB would cold call 2 first, then he'll do it again.

Turn 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
SB checks, <font color="red">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls, <font color="red">SB raises</font>, UTG calls, Hero calls.

River T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
<font color="red">SB bets, UTG rasies</font>, Hero folds, <font color="red">SB 3-bets, UTG caps</font>

UTG shows 66 for trip 6s
SB shows 22 for trips 2s

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
BB passive preflop, aggressive post. typical moves seem to be: donkbet on draws, either c/r flop or waits 'til turn on flopped TP.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is the sort of player who fires into PFR just hoping you would fold. With SB in there, I think you can raise it up. Otherwise, I might raise him on the turn (that does a more effective job of shutting him down when he doesn't have anything, plus you have more fold equity with the turn raise than the flop riase). Maybe I'll just call him down if he's VERY aggressive.