Did I do the right thing? Ethical Q

[Percula]

OK... So last night I was playing some 5-150 spread limit. On my table in seat 8 and seat 9 are a couple of rich buddies that love poker. They love it a little too much, so much that they were voilating the "one player per hand" rule on most hands. Sometimes it was nothing to worry about, others were down right wrong, i.e. talking out how to play a pot agianst another player.

I seen them run a squeeze play a couple of times too.

I talked to the floor on the side out of their view while on a break. The floor watched the table and had the next dealer do the same. The boys were sharp and stopped just short of voilating the rules with that dealer and while the floor was in sight.

So this hand comes up a little while later, I am in MP with KK and I get a couple of limpers to me and raise to $45, folds to the button (seat 8) and he RR to $90, SB (seat 9)says to seat 8 "I'll give you a little protection" and RR $150 all fold back to me.

OK so here goes their squeeze play again... So I call for the floor. The players and dealer want to know why. I tell them I want the floor to see this hand. When the floor gets there I tell him that seat 8 and seat 9 are running a squeeze play on me. Seat 8 & 9 are up in arms, PO'ed to say the least. The action is explained and he is told about seat 9's statement, which is quickly denied but confirmed by the dealer as accurate.

The floor asks what he wants from me. I tell him that I want him to watch the hand to completion and have all hands exposed and decide for himself if there is a problem and deal with it if he decides there is one.

I RR 150, seat 8 and 9 both call. Flop comes with a K high and the SB checks, I bet 150, button and BB fold. Button is made to show his hand of KQo and the SB shows 53o.

The floor decides that the hand was "out of the normal expectation of play" and asked seat 8 or 9 to change tables. Both seat 8 and 9 are mad and rackup and leave instead.

Both players were fair and likely would have dumped their stacks to the table over the next few hours, but I was PO'ed that they were trying to shoot this crap on me and a couple of newbees at the table. I know how to couter the squeeze they were trying to run, but most of the players at the table did not have a clue as to what was happening.

So did I do the right thing or should I have simply let them play their little games and taken their chips? I think I did the right thing, but...

BTW the floor told me later that they would be watched closely if they come back and that he would review the tapes from the table and make a final choice to ban them or not.

[m bozeman]

I think you did the right thing. That is, except for betting out on a flop when you flopped the nuts! [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[The Armchair]

Not only did you do the right thing, but the fact that they're going to hit the felt sooner or later is irrelevant. There is a high probability that their collusion will take out a stack or two, and one of those could be yours.

[TomBrooks]

Bringing the problem up with the floor before had the problem affect you personally was a good idea.

A comment from you to them when they pulled a squeeze play on someone else might have gotten them to stop while causing them less embarressment and avoided the situation where the floor felt compelled to split them up to different tables.

BTW, did the floor realize they were doing this openly and out loud? It would seem to be a matter of them not knowing the rules since they weren't trying to hide what they were doing.

[KenProspero]

You thought players were cheating at your table and called it to the attention of the floor. How can that be wrong?

BTW, how do you beat this kind of squeeze? I'd love to add that tool to my arsenal.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

You acted perfectly, Bravo. Quietly alerting the floor to the problem without alerting the cheaters is the best way to catch them. The floor acted fine too, and I'd seriously consider banning them immediately. At the very least, they'd never play at the same table again in my room.

al

[Al_Capone_Junior]

Even two moderate to fair players who are playing together effectively aren't going to be beatable, even by the best players. The effect of the collusion is just too strong. This is more often seen in limit play, but would surely be effective in no limit too.

I don't think there was any need to NOT embarrass these two, I think the OP did fine. They certainly knew what they were doing, raising and reraising a strong move with 53o etc.

al

[phish]

Think you handled it excellently. And the floor seemed competent at least. I remembered a similar incident (except they weren't so vocally obvious) at my cardroom awhile back. I alerted the floor, but he was clueless as to what I was talking about. He's not a poker player and didn't understand the concept of collusion. So I just made a public stink about it at the table, and at least they had the decency to not insult my intelligence by denying it. They just sat there without a word and played normal poker from then on.

[TomBrooks]

[ QUOTE ]
BTW, how do you beat this kind of squeeze?

[/ QUOTE ]
You don't really have to beat them if they keep playing like they did in the hand the OP described - they beat themselves. Do you see why?

By playing one strong hand and one weak hand backing up the strong hand, we can safely assume the weak hand will rarely win and is putting almost dead money into the pot.

Then what happens is that everytime one of them wins, as a pair they just break even. One player gets his money back, the other loses his money, and the winner gets an equal amount of money from one other player. Combined result = 0.

Everytime they lose, together they lose twice as much money as they would have if only one of them played.

As long as you realize this is what they are doing, your a favorite, all other things being equal, to take all their money after a while. And from the description of the situation, it seems like they didn't even realize what they were doing to themselves.

If you didn't realize what they were doing however, and somehow you thought you had two strong hands against you, they might get you to fold incorrectly and take your money that way. The OP was protecting the newbies at the table, not himself. Ironically, he was also protecting these two guys from themselves, although at the time they didn't appreciate it.

[boscoboy]

i dont disagree with your action, however, i tend to agree with tom - i would've made a mental note and moved on - i think you can use this to your advantage more than it will hurt you

that being said i'll bet lots of people soft play their friends or reraise to isolate the odd man player - anybody that says otherwise is lying