presto! - Page 2

TStoneMBD · #11 11-20-2005, 05:59 PM

i mean fold river ui.

sthief09 · #12 11-20-2005, 06:20 PM

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alright i'll be the fish who asks for explanation on the flop raise. why? schneids has KQ and surf will fold his 88 right...

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big pot, i almost always have 6 outs so im at least calling, and its well worth the extra sb to increase my chances of winning this pot

Spicymoose · #13 11-20-2005, 06:25 PM

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alright i'll be the fish who asks for explanation on the flop raise. why? schneids has KQ and surf will fold his 88 right...

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big pot, i almost always have 6 outs so im at least calling, and its well worth the extra sb to increase my chances of winning this pot

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Now can you explain what you were thinking when you bet the turn? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

TStoneMBD · #14 11-20-2005, 06:27 PM

also ive decided that i dont like the river bet. i think its -ev. surfbullet is representing a PP in this hand and hes going to have a diamond half the time. he will also be folding a pocket pair without a diamond a good portion of the time. i really cant see him having Ax here without a diamond because that would just be bad poker checking the turn.

Jeff W · #15 11-20-2005, 07:05 PM

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also ive decided that i dont like the river bet. i think its -ev.

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I think river bet is good. Surf will often donkbet river with a made flush here. If surf has any pocket pair and no Ax/set hands and never bets river with a flush, Josh is still a 61:39 favorite.

Board: Ad 4d 7d 9d 2h

equity (%)
39% { KK-88, 66-55, 33 }
61% { 5c5d }

Also, I wouldn't rule out an Ace w/ no diamond for Surf if he misread the strength of Josh's flop raise.

I do like a turn check though. That turn check clearly indicates that Surf can beat 55 unless he's way out of line.

wheelz · #16 11-20-2005, 07:05 PM

yeah i thought about it afterwards and i get it. i'm not so tough in big pots. you don't really think you have the best hand on the flop though right? i mean i know it's possible...

TStoneMBD · #17 11-20-2005, 07:10 PM

youre right about surf donking this river with a flush and i recently used that analysis in another thread so its funny that i forgot about it. since surf will donk the river with a made flush i agree that the bet has value as long as he calls with a pair no flush as often as often as he checks a flush on the river. you also have to fear a bluff checkraise but i dont think surf would do that very often. i think a fold to a checkraise is pretty easy but if you feel the need to call then i think the bet is -ev.

#18 11-20-2005, 07:11 PM

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and its well worth the extra sb to increase my chances of winning this pot

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Just a clarification. It's often not just one extra sb you're investing, especially against good players; they will punish you for your insolence and 3-bet a large percentage of the time.

Surfbullet · #19 11-21-2005, 12:12 AM

This was an interesting hand. Given Josh + my history this session I think he would have to call a river c/r from me, which makes a river bet worse IMO. However, my hand would be pretty obviously a strong PP or A and I've made it clear I'm getting to SD so there might be enough value to make up for having to call a river c/r.

I felt at the time that I probably should have bet the turn, but I wanted Josh to know I was headed to SD and I thought the turn check would do it... also many hands that josh might fold on this turn (like a smallish PP) will often make a hand worth calling that he decides to free-SD raise with. He and I had been playing quite (over)aggressively towards one another.

Surf

edit: my turn check doesn't jive with the rest of the hand when you know my holding. I hated that turn card so much. Also, Josh's river bet was better in this particular session than it would be if we were playing 15/30 because it would be worth it to pay $1 to see his holding.

TStoneMBD · #20 11-21-2005, 12:18 AM

mind telling me why you want josh "knowing" youre going to showdown here? i see no reason to give him accurate information about your hand. also, id like to know what hands youll check this turn with because if they include any holdings without a diamond i think you misplayed the hand. if youre playing good poker you should always have a diamond unless youre sure josh would bet and youre looking to checkraise. because of that if the river is another diamond and you bet at it i think josh should fold his flush. this is all assuming youre playing your hand well. thats the problem with checking this turn. youre giving the opponent so much information about your hand.

also as i said before, if you think josh has to call a checkraise from you on this river then josh shouldnt be betting if your assumption is correct. there just isnt enough value in it if thats the case.