Misplayed high hand

Party Poker 1/2 omaha8 (8 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, mp1 calls, hero raises, sb calls, bb calls, mp1 calls

Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, mp1 bets, hero calls, sb calls, BB folds.

Turn: J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, mp1 bets, hero raises, SB folds, mp1 raises, hero calls.

River: 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
mp1 bets, hero calls.

Final Pot: 13 bb


First hand post, sorry if I did a poor job of formatting. I know the pf is no good, but I am more interested in the post flop play. To this point, villian seems agressive but not out of line.

Unless Villain is very tight, cap the turn. Your average 1/2 player won't have K9 or KJ here more than half the time. I'd just call the river, but that may be wrong.

[Cooker]

This is an easy fold to the first bet on the flop. You took a stab at the pot preflop and it didn't work. This guy could be taking a shot with crap hoping you missed a nice low drawing hand, but betting into so many people, I give him credit for a K and am done with the hand. I don't want to draw to a straight only to get shown a FH, and if this guy is decent and he has a K in his hand, a lot of your straightening cards will give him a FH if he doesn't already have one. If you hit your J you are also playing a does he have just trip kings or kings full guessing game which as you see is a bad place to be. You got yourself into this mess by drawing to hands that might already be beaten.

[ QUOTE ]
This is an easy fold to the first bet on the flop. You took a stab at the pot preflop and it didn't work. This guy could be taking a shot with crap hoping you missed a nice low drawing hand, but betting into so many people, I give him credit for a K and am done with the hand. I don't want to draw to a straight only to get shown a FH, and if this guy is decent and he has a K in his hand, a lot of your straightening cards will give him a FH if he doesn't already have one. If you hit your J you are also playing a does he have just trip kings or kings full guessing game which as you see is a bad place to be. You got yourself into this mess by drawing to hands that might already be beaten.

[/ QUOTE ]


This is more or less what I figured. In PLO I would have folded this without hesitation, but I wasn't sure if it was reasonable to call in limit.

[ QUOTE ]
Unless Villain is very tight, cap the turn. Your average 1/2 player won't have K9 or KJ here more than half the time. I'd just call the river, but that may be wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what I was thinking at first, but when he 3 bet me on the turn I realized that he may have just been protecting his k9 full house.

[Wolffink]

Well, imo, you had two choices:

A) Fold on the turn. You showed strength, but MP1 shows greater strength. Your full house is most likely no good.

B) Call on the turn and on the river. The pot is large. Also he might be raising with Full House 9s which you can beat. This is hard to believe though. Still you have pot odds and you only have to be right a minority of the time.

So some of it depends on how you see your opponent. If he's a rock, you should fold the turn. If he plays around a bit, then your hand might still be good. Like you mention, with limit, it won't cost you your entire stack to see if your full house is good. Is he likely to overbet an underfull?

Sometimes you just gotta pay off. It's hard to imagine your opponents have the honest-to-God nuts all the time.

Preflop: I dont like the raise here. Limp or fold. Id probobly fold.

Flop:

Outs- 3 T, 2 J, 3 Q

You are getting 5.5-1 odds to hit your hand, and 9-1 pot odds. Easy call, right? Not really. Unfortunatley, none of these outs give you the nuts, and only the 2 J's can make you somewhat comfortable with your hand. Drawing to a straight or a no-nut full house on a paired board is a bad move. Fold it here and get out of the way.

Given the way you played the hand, the turn and river are fine.

[pokernose]

I would have limped pre-flop. You have a hand with scoop potential if the flop comes high. The flop came high, but it was still terrible for you. You are drawing to a straight or a weak full house against what is likely a bigger full house. I would have folded on the flop. Any card that hits you will just put you in position to lose a lot of money. If you are comitted to seeing the river with this hand, then checking and calling is the way to go.

[benwood]

High hands are not good pre-flop raising hands, especially short-handed, and this is not a very good high hand. A call is plenty with this marginal hand.Flop:If you're not already drawing dead, you could make your hand &amp; get killed on the re-draw.Fold. Turn:Your raise represents K's full,but he still thinks he has you beat.How do you like your hand? I know I have been hard on you, but I only mean it constructively.Good luck to you.Ben.

[Buzz]

dtemp - I don't think you should continue after this flop. When the board is paired, I don't think you should generally draw for a straight or flush. And when the board is paired higher than your pair, I don't think you should draw for a full house.

If you already had the straight, flush, or full house, that might be a different matter. Or if you had a nut low draw, you maybe could continue.

But to continue after this particular flop, I think you need a king or a pair of nines (or a pair of kings). Since you have none of these, you should fold to a bet. With twelve cards between the three of them, it's just too easy and too likely one of your opponents has a king. An opponent with a pair of nines, aces or queens is ahead of you after this flop too. Assuming random cards, the probability for no kings amongst your opponent's cards is 0.53.
C(43,12)/C(45,12) = 0.53.

Thus the probability at least one of your three opponents does hold at least one king is 0.47. It may look like you're slightly ahead, but if you include the probability of one of your three opponents holding a pair of nines, aces or queens, I think you're substantially behind.

When you do continue after a flop with an overpair, you're putting yourself in the position of being damned if you do and damned if you don't. If you make one of your non-nut draws, you tend to be stuck in the hand and facing a tough decision.

Notice that you could get away from the hand easier and more cheaply if you had not made the pre-flop raise.

Just my opinion.

Buzz