Check - Raise

vexvelour · #1 06-11-2005, 02:44 PM

You know, I'm a huge fan of the occasional check-raise. I think it's a great play that can make loose betters and top pair think twice about their cards. I use this (not frequently) in both my home games and at the casino.

The home players will make a big deal about it (no one else really utilizes check-raise) but for the most part give me credit for it and fold, maybe call with top pair, depending on what's out there. A few players get very angry when I check-raise them and I won't hear the end of it for hours. This affects my play, because I'm less likely to try it again for fear of being berated for hours.

At the casino, I get a completely different response. Because I'm a girl (I suppose), usually they don't give me credit for a strong hand and someone will come over me and raise again, even when I've got the nuts. The players there seem completely knocked over that *I* could have a good hand and wasn't bluffing. They'll kid about it afterward for a while and this also makes me uncomfortable.

How do you guys feel about check-raise and if it happens to you, how do you act? (Supposing you probably have an inferior hand). How often do you pull a C-R? I didn't think that it was so damn controversial to check-raise and I'm tired of having my plays pointed out to the entire table.

Kurn, son of Mogh · #2 06-11-2005, 04:29 PM

It's part of the game.

xniNja · #3 06-11-2005, 05:50 PM

It's not only a part of the game, it's a very useful maneuver in the game. Check-raise often enough so that when you check, it is no longer a sign of weakness. If being a "girl" gains you extra action on check-raising (they 3 bet your check-raise when you have the nuts)... [censored] I would check-raise all the time.

vexvelour · #4 06-11-2005, 06:41 PM

yea too bad i don't get more chances to play against old men in a casino that will call me.

that part i don't mind...it's the b**ching that gets to me.

xniNja · #5 06-11-2005, 06:56 PM

Don't worry about the bit*ing... almost every day I hear someone bit*h about getting check-raised or someone check-raising... all the players at the table keep silent, because we now know this bit*her isn't a poker player, but there to have fun or make friends. Also, since I don't know your relative poker knowledge... I just wanted to add, most of the time it is actually better to bet out a strong hand.(unless it is a VERY strong hand.)

Dan Mezick · #6 06-11-2005, 07:02 PM

Take what they give you. If it puts them near tilt, exploit it.

The check-raise can make them more aware of you.

If the check raise helps you in terms of making your presence known and it gets you a little more influence and respect, by all means keep doing that in the right spots.

Maybe the better players will learn to avoid your table.

YOUR table.

mosquito · #7 06-11-2005, 07:24 PM

You might consider the check-raise to be -EV in the
home game, just because of the social thing and how
it affects you.

At B+M, go for it!! And take advantage of being
a woman, too.

vexvelour · #8 06-11-2005, 10:46 PM

Thanks for all the good advice.

I know that betting out is preferable....I usually check-raise when i have something (near) unbeatable. Of course, it makes players aware of you, but with lots of money in the pot sometimes people are inclined to call.

NateDog · #9 06-12-2005, 12:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for all the good advice.

I know that betting out is preferable....I usually check-raise when i have something (near) unbeatable. Of course, it makes players aware of you, but with lots of money in the pot sometimes people are inclined to call.

[/ QUOTE ]

You need to re-think your reasons behind check raising if you wait till you have the nuts to do it. Read (or re-read) the c/r'ing sections of SSHE, HPFAP, ToP, or whatever applies to the games you play.

MLerra · #10 06-12-2005, 08:35 AM

I have some male and female roommates; all the guys play poker, and one of the girls does too. The girl is a very good player, albeit very conservative. In a casino, she has the patience to play only TT-AA, and AK and perhaps AQ. Recently, she's begun check-raising, and it's an absolute gold mine for her. I think there's two types of male poker players: the ones who can't fathom being outsmarted by a girl, and the ones who think they can bully the girl out of every pot.

Either of these types pay her off every time; even new home game players who play with us will do it too. They just can't wrap their minds around the fact that they could have checked behind and gotten another card (or showdown) for free... they can't believe that this girl outsmarted them and got them to bet there, so they call every time. Then there's the macho guys who get pissed, and instantly reraise all-in as though that will somehow push her out of the pot with Aces or a set or something.

Anyways, it's funny to see you write about this, as we sort of figured out this skill of hers (or advantage or whatever) a few months ago. It's interesting to see your experiences are similar. The next step is finding the third type of guy, like me, who actually respects the check-raise from people like you... and using it with absolutely nothing to get me to fold good hands. My roommate, I fear, is just starting to do this very thing :-(