this is just ugly

turnipmonster · #1 10-18-2004, 12:16 AM

really ugly. both opponents were pretty clueless. when do I get away from this 3 way?

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG raises, MP calls, Hero 3-bets, Button calls, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls, MP calls.

Flop: (13.40 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG checks, MP checks, Hero bets, Button raises, UTG calls, MP calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (10.70 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG checks, MP checks, Hero checks, Button bets, UTG folds, MP calls, Hero calls.

River: (13.70 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP checks, Hero checks, Button bets, MP calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 16.70 BB

mscott · #2 10-18-2004, 12:44 AM

I think you got to decide on the flop. If you think your beat, fold otherwise raise, I'd lean toward raising. If he caps you can be fairly sure your beat. Then call and see the turn. If no Q comes check/fold.

DrGutshot · #3 10-18-2004, 01:31 AM

The reason I don't like the line of 3betting the flop is often he will slow down even with a king, so you still don't know where you stand.

I agree this hand IS very ugly, and we all see it too many times. I probably wind up playing it the same way. Food for thought though - what do you think about betting out the turn (in case he is raising on a heart draw), then folding to a raise?

-DrG

Scotch78 · #4 10-18-2004, 01:43 AM

I agree that you need to decide this one on the flop, and I'd decide to fold. Even if the button doesn't have you beat (I think he does), you're still overcalling.

Scott

mscott · #5 10-18-2004, 01:49 AM

This is a though hand. I have a feeling that someone has us beat. After a little more thought, I think calling is the best choice on the flop. I think there are only two options on the turn betting out and folding to a raise or check/folding. Of these I'd go to check/folding. I think there is a high likelihood that one of our three opponents has us beat. UTG or MP could have a monster considering they back CC’ed a raise.

mscott · #6 10-18-2004, 01:53 AM

I favor calling even if you think your beat because the pot is so big. the pot ended up being 16.5 BB so you have got the odds to call to the turn, but if you don't hit a Q there, you got to get out.

ALL1N · #7 10-18-2004, 04:08 AM

My standard line here is to stop'n'go. With 4 players in on the turn, I think folding to a raise should be fairly safe.

turnipmonster · #8 10-18-2004, 10:17 AM

my thoughts exactly, to me putting any more bets in the pot on the flop/turn might slow him down, but slowing him down doesn't seem to accomplish a lot.

I agree overcalling is ugly, but these guys are really world class chooks so it's hard for me to respect the river call, which he will make with any pair.

I think maybe check fold the turn? who sees a showdown?

--turnipmonster

turnipmonster · #9 10-18-2004, 10:19 AM

what do you think about betting out the turn (in case he is raising on a heart draw), then folding to a raise?

I think I like it. what's the river plan if he calls? check overcall? it's less ugly than my line [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

DrGutshot · #10 10-18-2004, 11:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
what do you think about betting out the turn (in case he is raising on a heart draw), then folding to a raise?

I think I like it. what's the river plan if he calls? check overcall? it's less ugly than my line [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah if the turn stop+go is what you chose, you absolutely cannot fold to one bet on the river if he just calls the turn. So if he calls the turn and bets the river you cry, cry, cry some more, and call.

-DrG