one pair disaster

#1 11-18-2005, 11:00 AM

Hi,

Stakes: .50$/1$ at PP
Profit after 2,500 Hands: 24$ (1BB/100H)
Profit with one pair: -112$

Is it normal not shwowing a profit with one pair?

Here 2 typcial hands. I know I played them badly. How do I fix it?

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO calls, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls.

Flop: (14.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (7 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls $0.50 (All-In), MP2 calls, CO folds, Button folds, BB calls.

Turn: (11.75 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players, 1 all-in)
BB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, BB folds.

River: (14.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players, 1 all-in)
Hero bets, UTG+1 folds, MP2 raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 18.75 BB

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, SB raises, 1 fold, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (5 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, SB calls, MP2 folds.

River: (7 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11 BB

hobbsmann · #2 11-18-2005, 11:04 AM

fold to the river raise in hand 2.

Hand 1 is a little more tricky and I would normally call for piece of mind, but you are rarely ahead after MP2 raises and can probably fold and not lose sleep over it.

TheKentock · #3 11-18-2005, 11:08 AM

I actually don't think you plyed either hand that poorly.

Hand 1 looks fine, I like the raise on the flop to charge some gutshot draws, etc. When you're raised on the river, whaddaya gonna do? Call the bet and get 'em next time.

On hand 2, what did you put SB on? I ask because your flop call could have easily been a raise. Were you planning on raising the turn on a safe card, or were you going to call down? I think a read on SB is important here, as well as on the river. You must evaluate the chance that a King helped his hand. Does he only raise out of the SB with high quality card? If so, I would assume AK and KQ are a big part of his hand range here, not to mention the hearts. I am tempted to check behind.

sean c · #4 11-18-2005, 11:27 AM

Hi nofutures hand one looks good. In hand two i would have probably raised pre flop.

#5 11-18-2005, 11:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I actually don't think you plyed either hand that poorly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I picked some that were borderline. I'll show you a hand a played badly:

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG raises, UTG+1 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero caps, 1 fold, CO calls, Button calls, 2 folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (21.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, CO calls, Button raises, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, Hero 3-bets, CO calls, Button calls.

Turn: (15.25 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, CO calls, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, CO calls, Button caps, Hero calls, CO calls.

River: (27.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, CO checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: 27.25 BB

[ QUOTE ]

On hand 2, what did you put SB on? I ask because your flop call could have easily been a raise. Were you planning on raising the turn on a safe card, or were you going to call down?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was probably thinking not much (enough). I thought my J is probably good and he is likely to have overcards so I call.

sean c · #6 11-18-2005, 11:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I actually don't think you plyed either hand that poorly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I picked some that were borderline. I'll show you a hand a played badly:

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG raises, UTG+1 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero caps, 1 fold, CO calls, Button calls, 2 folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (21.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, CO calls, Button raises, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, Hero 3-bets, CO calls, Button calls.

Turn: (15.25 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, CO calls, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, CO calls, Button caps, Hero calls, CO calls.

River: (27.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, CO checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: 27.25 BB

[ QUOTE ]

On hand 2, what did you put SB on? I ask because your flop call could have easily been a raise. Were you planning on raising the turn on a safe card, or were you going to call down?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was probably thinking not much (enough). I thought my J is probably good and he is likely to have overcards so I call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi nofutures the turn 3-bet is spewy but i really like your flop play and turn lead. No free cards on this board!

In short with the exception of the river call of the raise in #2 and the turn 3-bet in #3 these hands were played well.

Also 2,500 hands is a flea on a dog's ass as far as sample size goes. Stay aggressive and good things will happen.

I forgot raise that pre flop in hand #2 also.

kiemo · #7 11-18-2005, 11:55 AM

Hand 1: You may want to think about waiting till the turn to raise this. On the flop the pot is just way to big to chase out any draws. Good table selection though - 5 cold callers from an UTG raiser, I miss .5/1!

Hand 2: Check behind on the river. That King was not a card you wanted to see and SBs check on the turn means he is not calling with anything you beat.

Hand 3: Once he raises the turn on you, call down. What do you think Button called 4 cold preflop with. Probably isnt 87 or some ragged two pair, unless you have a read on him that would indicate he is an any 2 for any price. Most times with this kind of aggression you are looking a set.

#8 11-18-2005, 12:29 PM

My Stats (just for Party Poker):

Stakes: .50$/1$ at Party Poker
Profit after 3,144 Hands: 187.18$ (+5.95BB/100 Hands)
Profit with one pair: -114.26$

If you are getting your information from the Poker Tracker Misc. Stats tab (as I did), you will notice that it includes all of your hands even the ones that you fold. So if you cold call a small or medium pair for 2 small bets preflop with 4 players sure to be in the raised pot (which you should), then fold it when the flop does not hit your hand -- that goes as a $1 loss. Same if on the small blind you have a pair of 2s and it is raised and reraised before you and you fold it is a $0.25 loss in the pair column. There is a box that you can click called "Show Only Hands That Were Not Folded" that will show what your results are hands you do not fold. For me all of the hands show a profit if I click this box. I wouldn't take this too far because it is definitely possible to fold too much thus showing a profit by clicking the box but being an overall loser because of a tendency to incorrectly fold in big pots. Don't fall into this trap! Call down if the pot is big!

As for the two hands you posted:

Hand 1 is played correctly, and on Hand 2, you probably should have raised on the flop against two players with your top pair to try and define SB's hand a little better (calls with AK, AQ, KQ versus re-raises with a big pair or AJ, for example) and to get more money in the pot from both players if they are on a draw (like they would be with AK or hearts). The turn bet is fine. On the river the King is a scare card with the preflop raiser still in so you might have considered a check/call line (but not necessarily check/ fold).

I wouldn't worry too much about a low (over even negative) win rate over 2500 hands. I just put up my win rate for my Party Poker play. My overall win rate at just under 10,000 hands is +2.19BB/100 Hands and in the middle of that I had a -100$ downswing over 2,259 hands while whoring bonuses at Stars and Paradise (none of the results included in this reply include the bonuses). I think the important thing is to continue playing tight and aggressive preflop and to continue to read and post here to keep fine tuning your post flop play. And remember folding in marginal or scary situations when the pot is big (and usually it's big at Party Poker) is generally wrong.

hustalasta · #9 11-18-2005, 01:27 PM

*grunch*

Hand 1 - I would have played the same, I like that BB bets into me on the flop allowing me to face the field with two bets. The turn is a blank and you have to bet this. The river is somewhat of a scarecard but not enough to make me check through. With the size of this pot on river I am not folding for 1 bet.

Hand 2 - Raise the flop, bet the turn. River is harder, without knowing anything about the villian this is a good spot to check the river as an overcard and a flush card fell. But as you played it... at ten to 1 to call on the river I'm thinking I'm beat but calling anyways.

#10 11-18-2005, 01:27 PM

I think I would raise the flop on the JTs hand. Would that be incorrect?