commerce 30-60 question for andy

the 15 and 20 games there are alarmingly good. ive started playing commerce much more although i still have a soft spot for the extra soft 15 games at hp.


i earned 100 big bets last night at 20-40 just playing solid normal aggressive poker. ive been running over these games with little exception for several weeks. many of these people play like they are literally mentally retarded. is it just as fishy at the commerce 30 and 40 games in general or am i much more likely to run into trouble and tricky tight players up there?


hopefully youll answer, im sure it would be to your benefit if i sit in your game.

I can't speak for the games at night as I rarely play at night. I know the 20 games do indeed resemble a yellow blizzard. Congrats on the big win; I never won that much in a 20-40 game.


During the day, the 30 game is easiest in the morning and tends to get tougher with the early afternoon players. The 40 game, in my judgment, is actually an easier game, but of course your swings will be larger due to A) the larger stakes and B) the looser players. And sometimes there are some very tough players in the 40 waiting for the 80 game to start. But in general, it seems to me a softer game than the 30.


There is a much bigger difference between the 30 game and the 20 than between the 20 game and the 15. There are a lot of very aggressive players at the 30 level and higher, and a lot more sophisticated players. It's 3 bets pre-flop a much greater portion of the time in the 30, and those loose call, call, callers are less abundant. The turn is particularly aggressive compared to the 20. A much smaller percentage of the players chop too, so you've got to be a better head-up player as well.


Keep in mind I rarely play more than twice a week and I rarely play more than 4 hours at a time, so you shouldn't take what I'm saying here as gospel.

Maybe someone else can verify/correct my impressions.


Why not take a shot for one rack of brown chips in the 30 and see what you think of the game? There's no requirement that you stay there is you prefer to go back to the 20. You might look for some of the weaker 20 players who are playing in the 30 and then follow them. Of course, there are frequently must move games, so there's no guarantee you'll get into the correct game.


[I remember I once was stuck 2 racks in the 15 without winning one pot and noticed, in the 20 game, a player I thought was the biggest fish I had ever seen. So I went to the 20 and after 10 minutes I realized I had the wrong guy. The game was in actuality far tougher than the 15 I had left. So of course I won 3 racks in 2 hours.]


Good luck, Mike.

Mike -


I've dabbled in all the games that you've mentioned here, and there is a fairly substantial world of difference between these games...the 30 is, as Andy stated, significantly more aggressive than either yellow chip game. I know that when it's my blind, I am rather petrified when UTG or UTG+1 limps, if they are good, because I know that there is strength in them thar hands...strength that I fear greatly.


I'd also say that the importance of position goes up exponentially with limits....I'm not sure if that is a sound assessment or not, but in my (very) limited experience, that's the case.


I imagine that if you keep your head on straight, you ought to be able to have a decent amount of success there, though. But beware that the 30 is more than 1.5 times as big as the 20...it's at least twice as big...more hands per hour (marginal), and much more aggressive.


There. I've sufficiently repeated Andy, so now I'll be off. Good luck, and let us know how you do.


Josh

thanks for the great and detailed advice again guys. i think ill stick around the 15 and 20 for awhile. if you see a fat kid sitting over there with about 5 racks in front of him and a worried look on his face, that's me, come say hi.

I have heard that the Commerce has Pot-limit games. Does anyone have info on these games - Blinds spread/buy in requirements/number of tables etc. I would appreciate any first hand information. Thank you.


-Zeno

Don't know the details of the pot limit game, next time I'm in I'll inquire.

At Commerce, there's a strange phenomenon in which the multiple-of-20 games (20/40, 40/80) are loose and frequently profitable, while the 15 games (like 15/30, 30/60) are generally tighter than a frog's ass.


If you're enjoying success at 20/40, then you should stay there. If you're going to consider making the move up to 30/60, you might just want to jump up to the 40 game.


-Druff

of course i completely ignored your advice and say right down in a 30 game there hours after reading your posts. silly me.


luckily the game was actually pretty good and i picked up some nice hands that did nice things after the flop. won $2500 which made me pretty happy and then stepped down to 20-40. i was in a must move game which had some compulsive gambling A2C types and some players that were okay but didnt seem to have any sort of formal training (i.e.: they havent read hpfap, top, etc 200 times each like us, nor do they dwell on the play of hands here everyday). im finding this sort of advanced training in the game is giving me an almost unfair edge at the midlimit tables.


plus im running very good right now.

Cool! I replied to the hands you posted on the middle stakes forum.


Just curious: how was the player behavior? Were they more abusive, less abusive or about the same?


Andy

haha funny you mention it. there was this crusty old guy with sunglasses. he had entitlement disease, it was out in the open for everyone to see and kinda pathetic. he was such a sourpuss both in appearance and attitude! it was actually quite comical to most of the players there.


at one point he called the dealer a "miserable c*cksucker", threw his cards, and refused to play for the rest of that dealers down. there were also several comments like "what the hell are you doing? deal the damn cards!" i felt so sorry for the dealer i almost tipped him once. almost.


oh yeah this gentleman sourpuss also had to call the floor over when a debate ensued as to who deserved the extra chip in a split pot he was in. when the ruling went against him he growled "the lunatics are running the asylum". i completely agreed with him and echoed his every angry sentiment although i could hardly do so with a straight face and i think he realised i was mocking him.


there was a completely on tilt out of control horrid playing drunk iranian dude at my 20-40 last night as well. my favorite quote from him was when he yelled at an opponent who showed his second best hand "i had a ten too, you mother f*cker!" i almost fell out of my seat LOL. (im pretty easily amused as you can see). im really enjoying the company of all of these vehemently angry old men. lots of fun.