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Old 11-21-2005, 03:40 AM
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Default PT stats questions

Hello everyone!

Im new to this forum (as a poster) and I wanted to ask a couple of questions about my PLO PT stats.

Some background:
I've dabbled in PLO for quite some time as a break-even/marginally losing player but a couple of weeks ago i thought I'd make a serious try at it and see if I could be a winning player if I played it properly and devoted some effort and time. So I went ahead and brushed up my knowledge some and bought PT Omaha and this brings me to my questions.

All stats are after approx. 10k hands logged:

VP$IP: I'm at around 40% here slowly working downwards. My impression from reading on here is that <30% is a good number. Question: Are the extra 10% very detrimental to the winrate?

Flop aggression factor: I'm very low here (<1), but my turn and river factors are ok. How important is it to get more aggressive on the flop?

I appreciate any feedback!

/Rotmos
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Old 11-21-2005, 05:45 AM
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Default Re: PT stats questions

[ QUOTE ]
Hello everyone!

Im new to this forum (as a poster) and I wanted to ask a couple of questions about my PLO PT stats.

[/ QUOTE ]
Welcome!

[ QUOTE ]

VP$IP: I'm at around 40% here slowly working downwards. My impression from reading on here is that <30% is a good number. Question: Are the extra 10% very detrimental to the winrate?

[/ QUOTE ]
The answer to this depends greatly on your ability to play after the flop AND your opponents' ability post-flop. The big question is how are you doing with those 30-40% hands? Poker tracker can help you a bit here. Usually, those 30-40% hands consist of 3 good cards and a rag (like KQJ4ss). You can use pokertracker to filter these out and see if you're making or losing money with them.

At the lowest limits where many pleople have VP$IPs over 75%, 40% is just fine. Beyond $0.5/$1 though you will get killed if you don't learn to play marginal hands extremely well.
[ QUOTE ]
Flop aggression factor: I'm very low here (<1), but my turn and river factors are ok. How important is it to get more aggressive on the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]
How much less than 1? There's a big difference between 0.5 and 0.95

At a minimum, if you play many hands you shouldn't be very aggressive (on average - at least) because many of your hands won't warrent it. If you had a VP$IP below 30% then things would be different.
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  #3  
Old 11-21-2005, 09:14 PM
BluffTHIS! BluffTHIS! is offline
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Posts: 375
Default Re: PT stats questions

As I have stated before, I don't use PT, and I am always amused at these types of questions which usually I see in the no limit forum. How aggressive you *should* be depends on a great number of factors like your and your opponents' stack sizes, how good you are at releasing postflop when you have raised preflop, and most especially, on the specific dynamics of any table you are currently playing.

On a very active but passive table, you are going to have to bet your own hands instead of expecting to be able to checkraise. On a loose and aggressive table you have to be more wary of betting marginal hands especially out of position, because such bets won't be able to take down the pot right there as much as on a tight table. And you should generally show more aggression in position than out on any type of table, so as not to build big pots that you can be bluffed out of when first to act and a scare card comes on a later street.

But you should be aggressive about betting very good draws as well as sets or otherwise you will be too easy to read and will get no action on your made hands, or action you don't want, and will always be run off marginal hands that are winning because your opponents know from your previous play that you cannot have a certain type of hand that would fit a certain board. On the other hand, if you are never known to check the nuts to aggressive players behind you, then you will never see a cheap showdown when you want one.

The best players give an illusion of action that gets them action on their good hands in return. They raise with a wider variety of holdings from all positions preflop, but then play the flop correctly. They also bluff when the situation warrants it, even for their whole stack, and don't really mind being called and losing occasionally because they only really bluff a correct percentage of the time and that helps them get paid off when they have the nuts.

Instead of trying to artifically conform your aggression to a certain number, try to fit in with the table dynamics and your position relative to aggressive players. And study those winning players who are appropriately aggressive to see at what stages of certain hands they show the most or least aggression. Most important here also is factoring in the number of players in a pot.
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  #4  
Old 11-21-2005, 09:45 PM
Big Dave D Big Dave D is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 146
Default Re: PT stats questions

Unsurprisingly, I agree with Bluff, although from a slightly different perspective. I do use PT, although mostly because it allows me to multitable and review hands - "God I did play that one really bad".

So trying to build a style that conforms to some kind of "norm" is a hugely pointless exercise. Winning players can have VIPS from 25% to 55% and PFR from 4 to 15%.

The important key is how does your preflop style link to your flop play and onwards. If you ramp up the PFR, then you have to use more judgement on difficult situations and potentially gamble more, especially OOP. If you have a PFR that is smaller, then you have to be able to pass hands that *may* be winning, or that certainly would have been winning in a raised pot - AA or KK are good example here. Its all about what fits you best and in what way you can make effective decisions through the streets.

Some final points...

1.) Having said all this, the "average" winning style in the big games is 30-35%/8-15%. I have no idea if this would work in smaller games...certainly I doubt it is as good at 2-4 and 3-6 level.
2.) Below 30% is probably too tight.
3.) A classic ram jam, very tight preflop and blast every street holdem style is possibly the worst of all worlds.

gl

dd
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