Your river play?

Tilt · #1 12-02-2005, 06:50 PM

No HH available, from memory, sorry for mistakes.

200 PLO. Villain is a tricky, decent player and changes gears alot. I have ~$225, he has me covered.

I have in 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in MP3. 4 limp including me and Villain in CO, blinds check.

Flop A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Checked to me I lead out for 2/3 the pot, $8. Villain raises to $25. I call. Everyone else folds.

Turn (pot = $62) 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I bet pot, villain calls.

River 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Pot is $186. I have about $135 behind.

joewatch · #2 12-02-2005, 08:20 PM

Pretty tough here, OOP, eh? I would probably 1/4 pot it on the river and fold to a raise. Since you are OOP on the flop, I would have gotten it all-in on the flop to negate the bad position.

Tilt · #3 12-02-2005, 09:46 PM

Against this player I think that is a waste of $40. He'd sniff out a blocking bet and come over the top even if he had 4 2's in his hand.

I don't like getting all-in on the flop. Its a coin flip against a set if I do, and I like to believe that I am capable of getting more EV out of the hand by playing it out.

This hand is tormenting me. I ended up check folding to an $80 bet. I wish I had checked raised the turn and then check called a much smaller river bet. And the more I think about it, I think I should have called the river bet as the hand played out. I think the Villain would have raised a set + flush draw on the turn, so I now believe he was drawing to boat and then shook me off on the river when I checked.

It was very poorly played on my part I think. I'd love to hear LA Price, Beset, Aces Over8's, or any of the other seasoned vets weigh in on this action.

joewatch · #4 12-02-2005, 10:00 PM

I don't think there is a correct answer on the river. I can see potting it on the river might be the correct action since Villain is very unlikely to have a suited king [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], so he may fold a small flush.

Thinking about this hand more, I think that check-raising the turn should have been your play. Your draw was very deceptive since with this board, the most likely hand for you should have been KQJx. Therefore, the chance that Villain would have bet this hand if he had a set is high.

Marnixvdb · #5 12-02-2005, 10:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Against this player I think that is a waste of $40. He'd sniff out a blocking bet and come over the top even if he had 4 2's in his hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

If that would be true, it is very easy: you blockbet / call his raise.

Tilt · #6 12-02-2005, 10:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Against this player I think that is a waste of $40. He'd sniff out a blocking bet and come over the top even if he had 4 2's in his hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

If that would be true, it is very easy: you blockbet / call his raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

But he would do the same with a flush or a duplicated straight. So why not check/call rather than block/call all in? I mean, the point of a block bet is to fold to the reraise and block a bluff. Its just not going to work here.

bholdr · #7 12-02-2005, 10:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Thinking about this hand more, I think that check-raising the turn should have been your play. Your draw was very deceptive since with this board, the most likely hand for you should have been KQJx. Therefore, the chance that Villain would have bet this hand if he had a set is high.

[/ QUOTE ]

i like this line a lot- but you really have to be sure the villian will bet before going for the C/R...

#8 12-02-2005, 11:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Against this player I think that is a waste of $40. He'd sniff out a blocking bet and come over the top even if he had 4 2's in his hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate these spots. As Joewatch said, there probably is no correct answer. It all comes to down to your read on the player. If he is likely to come over the top of a weak bet, checking and seeing the price for a call down seems best. Then, all you can do is estimate what percentage of the time he is bluffs/has the hand and decide whether or not it is worth the price to call. Since he bet half the pot, he would have to be bluffing ~25% of the time to make this +EV for you.

joewatch · #9 12-03-2005, 12:09 AM

Tilt said that this player likes attacking weakness, so that makes it even more likely he will fall for the CR.

Marnixvdb · #10 12-03-2005, 06:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Against this player I think that is a waste of $40. He'd sniff out a blocking bet and come over the top even if he had 4 2's in his hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

If that would be true, it is very easy: you blockbet / call his raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

But he would do the same with a flush or a duplicated straight. So why not check/call rather than block/call all in? I mean, the point of a block bet is to fold to the reraise and block a bluff. Its just not going to work here.

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Whatever the point of a blocking bet is, you just said he would reraise a $40 'blocker' with ANY 4. So if that is what your blocking bet achieves, your point to fold to a reraise is now senseless, since that is based on the assumption he won't raise worse hands.

The flush is runner runner, too bad if he has it. Now think how you get most money in vs. his worse hands. C/R on turn wouldve been a good idea, but now that you arrived on river like you did: check / call or weak lead (blockbet) / call. Both seem good options. I usually like check/call more, but since you say he is raising a blocking bet with any 4, i like bet/call more, provided the likeliness of him holding worse is bigger than 50% (disregarding split pot with this number).

Marnix