K8o - Flop play?

afk · #1 08-16-2004, 04:02 PM

First hand at the table, new to the limit - so unfortunatly no reads.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 3 folds, Hero (poster) checks, 2 folds, BB checks,

Flop: (4.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 raises, Hero...

Sent · #2 08-16-2004, 04:27 PM

Interesting, I would fold, you aren't really getting the odds to chase your straight draw, doubtful your overcard is clean. They arent raising with flush draws lol

-Sent

scotnt73 · #3 08-16-2004, 04:31 PM

id reraise to creat a huge pot in case i hit.

nolanfan34 · #4 08-16-2004, 04:31 PM

This is a good example of a situation where the wisdom of SSH can be misapplied. It's easy to look at the possible draws, and think a hand might be playable.

But it's a small pot. Very easy fold. Your straight, even if you hit it on the turn, could easily be outdrawn if another high card falls.

afk · #5 08-16-2004, 04:42 PM

Interesting replies.
I decided to call (perhaps that was a big mistake). My reasoning was the following: Most players at this limit don't bet draws or raise for free cards, barring no reads I think the 'typical micro player' read is a fair one, so I thought my straight draw was clean - I'm a little shy on the flop, but I think I'll make it up later if I hit. My king is a sketchy out, so I didn't really trust it. I figured UTG might have a pair, and UTG+1 could have flopped two pair or a set with a hand like T9, 97s, or 77.

Rest of the hand:

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 3 folds, Hero (poster) checks, 2 folds, BB checks,

Flop: (4.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 raises, Hero calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

River: (8.25 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 10.25 BB

Results in white below: 
UTG shows Qc Ts (two pair, queens and tens).
UTG+1 shows Jc As (one pair, aces).
Outcome: UTG wins 10.25 BB.

Godfather80 · #6 08-16-2004, 04:59 PM

The significant problem here INMHO isn't the flop call, but the turn call.

On the turn you are getting 7.25BB-1 with a non-nut OESD and 3 dubious King outs. The 4 jacks will probably win you the pot (except against AK, but that's a doubtful holding) but will also win it for anybody else with a King, so I'll count them for 3 outs. The 4 sixes will probably win you the pot about half the time and split the pot the other half, so I'll count them as 3 outs. The 3 Kings make a straight for anybody with a jack and could leave you against a higher two-pair like KTo or K9o, so I can't count them. That gives you around 6 outs. So, on the turn 6 outs make your hand and 42 do not.

Considering the non nut nature of your draws, I don't think I'd call getting 7.25-1 on a 7-1 shot.

2 Questions:
Does this make me weak tight?
Does anybody disagree with my logic?