Why some struggle with the jump from Micro to SS games

[nolanfan34]

There have been a fair number of posts lately about people struggling to make the jump and adjustment from the .50-1 and 1-2 levels to the 2-4 and 3-6 games.

Going through that adjustment right now myself, accompanied by a bit of a downswing, I've been giving a lot of thought to reasons why it's tough for some to make the jump, like myself, while others seem to sail right through on their way to 15-30.

I'll present some thoughts below, and I'd love to get some feedback both from players who have made the leap, to see if this is off base, and also from players in the same boat as me, who might have other thoughts about the fundamental weaknesses in a person's game that gets them stuck at a certain level.

1. Inflated view of one's bankroll through bonuses:

For those starting at the micro level, bonuses are an easy way to build up the bankroll when starting out. Personally, my first $500 was really built through some casino whoring, so I could take advantage of the full amount of bonuses that poker sites had to offer. But because of that, I think bonuses have allowed me to play at a higher stake and move up levels before knowing if I was really "beating" them or not. Now that I'm hitting $2/$4, poor play results in losses outside of what a bonus would cover at the $1/2 and $.50/$1 level.

In essence, because I have the requisite 300 BB to move up a level, I think I might have a slightly inflated view of my actual poker ability - having the BR doesn't mean you're ready to move up yet.

2. Poor table management:

I think the 300 BB rule is a misnomer when people immediately jump into 4 tables at a new level. Others have mentioned in some good posts that tables at a new level should be eased in. Play one /4 table and 3 1/2s to get a feel for the new level. I think this is solid advice.

Yet I still see a lot of posts about people losing a chunk of their roll, invariably sprinkled with clues that they were 6 tabling at a new level, or something to that effect. 500 BB might be a better number if you're wanting to play 4 tables right away.

3. Recognizing tilt in it's most subtle forms:

Because the lower levels are so soft, I think the combination of slightly tougher play at 2/4 and 3/6, and the amount of money you lose when you play/run bad at that level, makes it even more important to have your emotions in check before moving up a level.

Personally, I find that tilt doesn't hit me in a maniac type of form, like playing crazy types of hands all of the sudden. Usually it's more subtle - starting to limp with slightly borderline hands in MP, "rounding up" my pot odds slightly and looking for a reason to call, and making what I justify as "value bets/calls" when I know I'm probably beat. These are small leaks in a single hand, but over the course of a session, I think they're killers when you play in a slightly tougher game.

I know I need to work on resisting those urges, and acknowledging tilt for what it is, based on a great definition in John Feeney's book - it's anytime you knowingly make a play with a negative expectation.

4. Lack of true evaluation of one's game:

Bernie made a good point in another thread that people don't bother to examine their game when they're running well, only when they're running bad. I think this is something I need to work on more. When I'm running good, the game seems easy, and I don't bother looking at big hands as much as I should, to see if I should have won more money in it.

And when I'm running bad, a closer look needs to be made at whether I'm really having downward variance, or am pressuring variance downward by my own poor play.

I hope others will post their thoughts here. Maybe this is common sense for many, but it was theraputic for me to put it into words. If you can think of other examples of mistakes people make when trying to jump levels, post them as well, I think it's a worthy topic.

[colgin]

All excellent points. Let me just add:

5. Not making necessary adjustments.

Your game at the microlimits might be quite good for those limits. However, even $2-4 and $3/6 will play differently from $.50/1 to $1/2.

For example, a lot of the hands that you can profitable limp with from EP at the micros often need to be mucked at the small stakes tables, particularly $3/6. In the micros you are generally correct to limp in EP with Axs (and even Kxs sometimes), as well as small pairs like 22-55. While this may still be correct at $3/6, IMO it generally is not.

At the SS tables you will encounter more aggression than at the micros. When you start getting checkraised frequently you need to learn to make certain adjustments.

While there are still plenty of poor players who will pay you off frequently, there are fewer of them. At the micros you can afford to make a lot of mistake and still be a pretty decent winner at the game because your monster hands get paid off so well. This is less true at the SS tables so you need to work a little to get the most out of your made hands.

There are other things as well but you should begin to get the idea.

I hope this helps.

Colgin

[Vollycat]

I am in this boat. My biggest problem is that I still see the chips I put into the pot as money--not big bets. I start to limp or call when I know I should raise because I don't want to lose the money.

I am currently watching my wife learn the game at .25/.5 and am shocked at how infreqeuntly the hand is raised preflop (it's been a while since I've watched/played this level)--yet still have 7 people in the hand. I stand over her shoulder and yell "RAISE THAT!", where she gets all nervous because she is going to lose her money. Yet, still 7 people to the flop and she gets sucked out by J8 off with her KK. Then the evil glares start--she doesn't get the whole variance thing yet....

For me it's protecting the bankroll--I may need to stay a little longer at 1/2, but have found 2/4 is actually running pretty good--way to few of hands but still positive on most aspects. I just need help on relating to the swings.

[MEbenhoe]

Excellent post Nolan. I hope a lot of people considering moving up levels take this all in before they make their move.

[Sarge85]

Well Said.

I'm moving from $1/$2 to $2/$4 and see alot of truisms in this post.

Sarge[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

[B00T]

[ QUOTE ]
1. Inflated view of one's bankroll through bonuses:

For those starting at the micro level, bonuses are an easy way to build up the bankroll when starting out. Personally, my first $500 was really built through some casino whoring, so I could take advantage of the full amount of bonuses that poker sites had to offer. But because of that, I think bonuses have allowed me to play at a higher stake and move up levels before knowing if I was really "beating" them or not. Now that I'm hitting $2/$4, poor play results in losses outside of what a bonus would cover at the $1/2 and $.50/$1 level.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is so frickin brilliantly put. No other way to say it.

I made a post a few days ago asking if there was a way PT can encorporate your bonus whoring money into your winrate. I have built my online bankroll up over the last year and a half and really have no idea how much of it came from bonuses and casino whoring. In Neteller its all the same whether it was $800 coming from a $1/$2 grind over a month, or spending 45 minutes ransacking BJ Ballroom in pounds (oh the good ole days). Many players just say oh I worked my roll up to 1500 from $50. Thats all well and good but when you break it down, after the $100 signup bonus, the $50 free some affiliate gave you into your acct, the IGM bonus you did, your reload, and 5 freerolls you won for a total of $25, and one casino whore, and a sidebet you made in Neteller on the Yanks/RedSox series, you really dont know what your winrate is.

If you play 100% on Party, or Stars, and have used Pokertracker for every single hand you may be ok but I am sure 90% of new users to this forum never heard of PT beforehand and thus dont know about their roll coming from where. If I played an hour at my gf's house it isnt recorded in PT.

Players must examine where their bankroll came from. If you have 300BB it doesnt mean you can move up. If you are up 600BB's at a previous level, then move up. People would be surprised how little they actually earned from playing compared to bonuses in some instances.

Good post Nolan.

[Rasputin]

Considering all the stuff in this thread, let me ask something.

I am playing the micros in an effort to implement the strategies in SSH cheaply while I internalize them. Should I not bother with the micros or are the games similar enough?

[B00T]

if you could afford to lose $200 in experimenting, give Party .5/1 a shot. The fact you made it to these forums alone is enough evidence you should be fine there. If you read SSH follow the tight chart as a guide and you should be fine.

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I find that tilt doesn't hit me in a maniac type of form, like playing crazy types of hands all of the sudden. Usually it's more subtle - starting to limp with slightly borderline hands in MP, "rounding up" my pot odds slightly and looking for a reason to call, and making what I justify as "value bets/calls" when I know I'm probably beat. These are small leaks in a single hand, but over the course of a session, I think they're killers when you play in a slightly tougher game.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is very true. It's very easy for a solid player to reach sort of a Faustian bargain on the tilt issue by making plays that he knows to be slightly -EV, on the rationalization that it might allow him to fend off making grotesquely -EV plays. I'd usually play A8s here; let's give K8s a try! It's almost the same hand!!

[charlie_t_jr]

[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I find that tilt doesn't hit me in a maniac type of form, like playing crazy types of hands all of the sudden. Usually it's more subtle - starting to limp with slightly borderline hands in MP, "rounding up" my pot odds slightly and looking for a reason to call, and making what I justify as "value bets/calls" when I know I'm probably beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've done this...great post by the way. This is pretty much the situation I'm in. I've had a very frustrating time trying to break into 2/4. All that you've posted are key things to consider.

I've gone over my PT hands, but I still haven't been able to single any one BIG thing out, other than it looks like I haven't really gotten great cards, and most of my big hands have been drawn out on.... I'm losing at -3/100 at 2/4 after about 7500 hands...not anything to be too worried just yet, but it can't be all cards.

My frustration level is at an all time high. 20K+ hands at 50/1 at a "crushing" wr...25K+ at 1/2 with a "solid" wr...and then 2/4...very frustrating.

My latest run at 2/4 was this weekend...and by Sunday night I was ready to burn my copy of SSH [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]....But I looked over PT Monday, and got a grip...I'll just keep plugging away...nice to know I'm not the only one though.