loose live games

[bodie]

I'm learning that loose live games have a life of their own. Yes, you see players holding the weirdest things, and 3rd and 4th nut lows winning low - but there seems to be a middle ground where, if you can get into the mindset of it - you still play premium hands while getting a feeling of experimenting with hands you wouldn't normally play only because of the texture of the table.
I think it can be done, it's something I've avoided doing until just lately....the difference is that if you choose to play hands that aren't "premium" because of position or other factors such as the players at your table, and you know just what you're looking for and can read your opponents to a certain degree, then you can really succeed in winning some huge pots on those many times when they cap the bets preflop, etc.
Otherwise you can sit there all night waiting for the perfect hand and watch all the maniacs clean up as they hold any four cards they are dealt, time after time. Make sense? Or do I sound like a lunatic.

[Bremen]

I dunno, in really loose games like that I tend to tighten up. Since you really need to make the nuts otherwise it just won't be profitable. Sure the Q high flush might drag a monster pot but it'll lose too often to a higher flush/miss flush to be profitable. Especially if opponents are prone to jam. I've also never found a game where it was routinely jammed. Most omaha/8 games I've played are very passive, rarely will there be a raise on any street.

As for morons playing any 4, last time I played 5/10 there was a guy who cashed out a dime after being allin at one point.

[DeadMoneyOC]

I played live O8 for the first time this past weekend and I loved it! The play was terrible and I think it was usually at least 5-6 players preflop with all sorts of junk. The crowd isnt exactly the type of people I love to play poker with though. Old, angry, and dirty.

[bodie]

"5-6 players preflop with all sorts of junk. "

That's what I mean - if you take a chance with odd things like pairs or high suited connectors (with good low backup)against players like that just to see the flop, it can be surprising how often they will connect with the board. And if you do know the game, you will fold if there's no match rather than chase. It has to be just the right sort of full, loose game to lower my standards, but I began to feel that it was not worthwhile to sit there among players like that just waiting for the perfect premium hand. I'm not talking about chasing with only Q-high flushes or 3rd nut lows - I'm talking about experimenting with *different* hands which, if they connect, cannot be beaten.

"Old, angry, and dirty. "

That cracks me up, and unfortunately it's too true. There are a whole lot of very cranky men, I've taken to saying, "you're just contributing to giving Omaha a bad name" when they start complaining now. All the dealers I know say that Omaha is the worst game because of the cranky players. If it isn't the dealer or the cards, it's the seat they're in or the intercom that's too loud.

[Spellmen]

Were you at the Taj in AC? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] When I was there last week I played some 2/4 and 5/10 Omaha and a 3/6 two way game that consisted of half hour on and off OMaha and Stud hi/lo. I was definately 30 years younger than anyone at the table, but I actually preferred the crowd to the usual NL holdem crowd. Most of the players were extremely talkative and loose, not the average punk at 1/2 NL with his sunglasses and backward cap that won't open their mouth the whole time.

[toots]

I definitely prefer the cranky old O/8 players to the underage surly WPT wannabes at the HE tables.

Anyway, I'm rapidly becoming a cranky old person myself, so I fit right in at the O/8 table.

If only I could get enough interest at Foxwoods for a $5/10 HOSER game...

[Bremen]

[ QUOTE ]
That's what I mean - if you take a chance with odd things like pairs or high suited connectors (with good low backup)

[/ QUOTE ]
The problem with high suited connectors is you really need the board to pair for it to be profitable. Top trips may win, but if it does its almost certainly splitting with low. If there is no low there's a high straight to beat you. Really the playable hands in these games are A2, A3, and 23 with any two sidecards, IMHO. Not saying I won't play high hands like KKQJ, but something like KK25 just isn't worth it. For the most part though I just play for the lock low and stumble into high once in awhile. I'm not saying playing high only hands isn't profitable, however it will definitly up your variance.

[templar999]

bodie,

i guess the loose O/8 games in california are vastly different than the ones here on the east coast where the games are much more passive. to my recollection, i have never seen it capped preflop, except on one ocassion when me and another guy were having too much fun playing 4 handed. are you in northern or southern cal? where are there decent O/8 games?

in the loose passive games i frequent, i actually prefer high suited connectors and/or pairs to an A2 hand without much high strength (including A24x, A25x, with the ace suited) and decent A3 hands (A3KQ, A3QQ, etc.) with predominantly low hands, you're usually drawing on the flop, and these are quite common scenarios:
1. you quarter with the nut low, seeing someone take the hi with kings up or bad trips.
2. you miss and fold, having thrown in 3 bets or more.
3. you get counterfeited and make a crying call at the end.

of course, i'm not saying that KQJT-ss or KKQT-ds are better than hands like A24K and the like. but unless i have at least three to a wheel with A2 or 4 cards 6 and below with an ace, i'm not terribly excited about ramming and jamming before and after the flop. taking into account the rake and the tips, to win at the loose passive games require a lot of scoops. while they cant make lo hands, high cards always have an opportunity to scoop with straights and big boats. and when you make them, rest assured, someone with a lower straight or a baby boat will be there to pay you off.

toots, if you ever get a mixed game started at 5-10 or 10-20, i'll quit borgata and move up to foxwoods. good luck!

respectfully,
temp

[bodie]

hi templar,

I'm in Southern Cal. - and many games are aggressive enough so that you will see the betting capped before the flop. Many of these players just love the thrill of it in my opinion because at the showdown you can see they weren't betting with premium starting hands in the first place. It's the best way to win monster pots, but it is a little nervewracking. My favorite story was one day when I had just won a kill pot, so I posted $6.00 - of course someone raised it. Since I already had the six dollars in I called the raise. then it got raised again, well, since I already had twelve dollars in I called that raise too. I remember I had a pair of nines in my hand and at that time they had a $50,000 jackpot for nines or better beaten, so I sort of wanted to see the flop anyway - otherwise I wouldn't have played that hand. Well, it got capped before the flop (and it was a kill pot, don't forget!) - to make a long story short I won an absolutely monster pot with a set of nines and there was no low. It was ridiculous, but the pot odds kept everybody drawing til nearly the end. I must say I wasn't very happy before the flop,having put $24.00 dollars in on a hand I wouldn't normally play. I felt a little better after a nine came on the flop, though not that much I must say. What I usually do in those very aggressive games is wait for premium starting hands so that if I enter the pot I'm okay if it gets capped before the flop.

So, yes though you will see some passive games more often the games can be pretty aggressive out here. In Las Vegas I played at Palace Station and the game was aggressive there as well.

[templar999]

bodie,

thanks for the reply. i knew the HE players out west are much more aggressive than the ones at AC, i wasnt sure if it was true for a game like O/8 as well.

i used to live in the bay area. was thinking of returning to visit and play at cache creek or bay 101. just wanted some thoughts on what i could expect.

respectfully
temp