Recovering from a bad beating

[KornGeek]

As a little side note (just because I found it amazing) before last night, I had never even seen a legitimate straight flush. The only ones I had seen were the result of somebody stacking the deck.

When I walked into the card club, I started by scoping out the tables to get a feel for the players' skill levels. I saw a flop of:

5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

After the showdown, a guy reveled the 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

I was suprised, but I figured I was bound to see it sooner or later. About 15 minutes later at a different table (I was sitting at this table but folded pre-flop), the flop came out:

4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

After the showdown, a player revelead the 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

In one night I saw two flopped straight flushes within about 15 minutes. I was stunned.

[crunchy1]

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How bad would it suck to only have a couple of big bet's left, catch AA, get in a multiway raised pot, flop a set, have the action go crazy and run out of chips to bet and raise on the turn?

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This sounds like exactly what happened after our Hero rebought for $20 and went all-in with his set to triple-up. You know if you were properly bankrolled here you could've rebought for $100 and tripled up $30-40 instead of only $20.

I don't think there's anything wrong with not having 300BB bankroll for the limit you play at. Furthermore, it's quite likely that 2/4 is the lowest game your local casino offers. If you're willing to add to your bankroll from your personal funds then, by all means, keep on playing.

However, if you're looking to slowly build up a bankroll and progress from micro >> low >> higher limits then you should really consider starting from scratch on an online site. They're quite reputable and seeing as how you haven't previously set-up an account (I assume) you should realize the great deals that are available to you out there in cyberspace.

Last - buying into these games short (i.e. your $40 initial buy-in) is not goot. You could flop the stone nuts and end up going all-in if it was capped every street. I'm surprised it hasn't been said yet (or I missed it) but I think generally you want to be buying into a limit game for at least/around 25BBs.

If you take some beats and lose some chips and the game is still good then at least make sure you stay above the 12BB mark (which would allow you to cap each street if it was neccessary). When I play 2/4 if I drop down to 50 and the game is still good I'll reload right back up to $100 - I'd advise you to do the same.

[KornGeek]

I usually buy in for more, but considering that I was still recovering from the big hit, I wanted to protect myself from acting without thinking. If I started to go on tilt, I wanted to make sure I wouldn't lose more than $40. I only bought back in because I believed I was still playing well.

The $20 all-in wouldn't have gone any higher. On the river, I only had one caller, and he was a cautious player who would have been unlikely to raise. However, I realize that does not change the fact that what you are saying makes sense in a mathematical sense. Next time, I plan to put down a little more.

I'm still not comfortable with online sites yet. I've heard of people cooperating to cheat, and I just generally don't trust most of the internet. I'm even cautious with well established websites like eBay. For now, I'm content to just play using my poker winnings, birthday money, etc. until I build up a realistic bankroll.

[Tapin]

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In one night I saw two flopped straight flushes within about 15 minutes. I was stunned.

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Hey, everyone knows B&M poker is rigged!

[img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[crunchy1]

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I'm even cautious with well established websites like eBay.

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To admit that you actually visit and (I assume) somewhat participate on eBay yet don't trust poker sites makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I would do some serious inquiry to online poker. Here's a couple things worth noting:

#1 - You'll probably start out at levels 2/4 and below. What cheaters/colluders are going to waste their time playing for $2 and $4 when they can be playing much higher limits?

#2 - Even at the higher limits I'm not convinced cheating is a serious problem. There are enough players on here winning at $15/30+ online that I don't think it's really a problem. If it was - no one would be playing online poker. The online card rooms would be out of business and out of money. They're not going to lose those billions of dollars in profit because they carelessly let cheating go un-noticed/un-attended to on their site. I'm not saying that there are not isolated incidents - I'm sure there are. But they are just that - isolated (and then dealt with) - and they should be of no worry to you.

#3 - Being new to online play you'll really have your pick of the mill. You should consider signing up with an affiliate and getting a rakeback deal right off the bat. You'll be eligible for many bonuses and tournament freerolls being new to these sites. You can also find a site that supports games and limits that suit your current bankroll. Here's a link for building up your bankroll online through bonuses, signing up for new sites.

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For now, I'm content to just play using my poker winnings, birthday money, etc. until I build up a realistic bankroll.

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That's great and don't ever let anyone else tell you that's it's wrong or not good enough. If what you do makes you happy then go with it!

Last you mentioned something about stop-limits and why you only bought in for $40. Here's what I have to say about that.

Good luck in your poker future!! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[KornGeek]

Thank for your support and advice. I've been reading and re-reading the information you linked to. It's very interesting.

I'm not ready to play online for money yet, but I'm considering starting playing on some free sites to get a feel for it.

As far as eBay goes, I've shopped there once for something (which is no longer sold in stores), and had a good experience, but I still feel VERY uncomfortable with it.

I've been sticking with home games and my local card club. I've had some good experiences there lately. I went with a friend recently. He had a $40 buy-in and I had $60. He caught some unlucky hands and was out quickly (I took most of it [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]), so I didn't play as long as I normally would have. After playing for only about 90 minutes, I left the table up $90. If he didn't need to go home, I believe I would have profited greatly that night. The table was ripe.

The other night I went back, and the 2/4 tables actually were full of players who knew what they were doing. Not a passive player there. It made it tough, but I was doing OK. What really hurt was when a few of them left and some strangely LAG players sat down. It's tough playing against TAG and LAG players at the same time. I ended up down $30 for the night, and mildly scolded myself for a few bad plays, but I wasn't too disappointed.

In summary, I'm doing better, and my bankroll is slowly growing. I'm hoping to have at least $700 in there by Xmas time. When I hit about $1500, I'm considering trying the 3/6 tables.

[ThisHo]

trying to be gentle here because we've all been at the very beginnings of our poker lives and had very short bankrolls and played over our heads so here goes:

1 - you REALLY REALLY should play some on-line poker and use the tips in the link from the previous poster to build your bankroll. A Neteller account is totally safe and I haven't heard of any problems with any of the sites. There is a LOT of bonus $$$ out there. Get a rakeback deal like the poster suggested. Its the only way to fly. Want to build that bankroll to $1500 by x-mas? no way, build it that big by Veteran's day (and that's conservative).

2 - If the table was ripe you should have told your buddy to go buy a beer and watch the game on TV because you were going to be playing for a while. Seriously, if your buddy still had chips would have had to go home or did he just want to because he was busted? I go with friends from time to time and we agree on a leaving time before we get there (often before we leave in case we need to go in seperate cars). Then we stay until the agreed upon time unless all parties agree to leave early. There is NOTHING worse than having to leave early because a buddy is busted.

3 - did I mention on-line poker and bonus $$$. Let me give a witness. On Jan 15 I had a $200. I'd been grinding on Ultimate Bet for quite a while playing up to $0.25 / $0.50 to build that up. I then used the bonus ho plan and now I'm above the 300BB threshold for 3/6, I bought my wife's mothers day present with poker $$$ and I've put some $$$ into the "family account" along the way. It can be done and the sites are safe. You just have to put in some time, but its poker so its fun time!

4 - understand that losing $100 playing 2/4 is not a big swing. I happens. It will happen more than once. It might happen more than once in a row and then you're out of poker $$$. It sounds like $$$ is tight and that's cool (it is with me too), but if $$ is tight then you're probably not going to get much more (if any) for poker beyond what you've got so you need to protect it to be able to build with it and the best way to do that is to play micro limits on-line.

5 - I have exactly ZERO clue as to how skilled you are, but if you haven't read Small Stakes Hold 'Em (and several other books that you can find recommendations for in the books/publications board) then you are playing with at least 1 arm tied behind your back. Father's day is coming up, perfect gift for little johnnie to give dad "The Theory of Poker"!

6 - if you just play for fun, like to have a good time, enjoy the card room and table environment, then ignore all of my first 5 suggestions, make it out to your club as often as possible, enjoy a beer while you're there and have fun! There is exactly NOTHING wrong with that and you are totally welcome to do it. Poker is a lot of fun. I'm just not sure how much winning you'll do long term.

Best of Luck!
ThisHo

[KornGeek]

As far as #s 1, 3, and 5 go, I'm currently researching online poker and plan to start with the free sites to get a feel for how I like it. Despite the fact that I'm a software engineer in my day job, I'm still partial to the hands-on feel of live poker. However, due to the suggestions I've received, I'm willing to consider playing online.

For #2, my buddy really did need to get going. We hadn't planned on staying long when we went there (but then again, I didn't expect to find a table so ripe). I talked him into staying long enough for the button to move around the table two additional times past when we were originally planning to leave. There was a very LAG player to my right and a lot of LP players at the table. I hated to leave it, but it was nearly midnight, and my buddy leaves for work about 5am.

As far as #5, I consider myself above average in skill, but far from great. I've read Theory of Poker straight-through once and go back and read individual chapters fairly often. I've also read Sklansky's Hold 'Em Poker roughly twice. I'm continuing my education, but I realize I have a long way to go. I feel that I'm far better than the average player at the 2/4 tables where I play. I would like to move up in stakes because I think I could win, but (with some help from this thread) I've been forced to face the reality that my bankroll isn't big enough to handle the swings just yet.

As far as #6, I plan on keeping up with the live poker while I experiment online. However, I'll pass on the beer. I firmly believe that alcohol has its place at the poker table, and that it's in the hands of my opponents. Even playing small stakes (or no stakes just for fun), I take it very seriously. Too seriously if you ask my wife.

Thanks for the advice. I'm still starting out in poker. I really only began playing seriously this year. However, in that time, I've come a long way. I appreciate the guidance this forum offers and I hope to someday give as much back as I'm getting.

[TripleH68]

I remember last year posting about sitting in a game at the B&M and not dragging a pot for 4hours 8minutes. It was brutal. That's just how it goes sometimes, really.

[Schmed]

I take a break...maybe play in some online tournys... that kind of thing... just mix it up