turn plans gone awry :(

[Sooga]

Paradise Poker, $3/$6.... I've moved up from my 0.5/1 games, and to tell you the truth, I like the 2/4 and 3/6 games a lot better. Anyway, to the hand. It was kinda late at night and the table was getting pretty tight. I open raise in MP with K [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] K [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] . Only the big blind (new player) calls. Heads up to the flop:

*** FLOP *** : [ 4 [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] ]

Big blind bets out. I call, planning to jack it on the turn. Heads up to the turn:

*** TURN *** : [ 4 [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] ] [ A [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] ]

Big blind bets out again. What's your plan for the rest of the hand?

[Dynasty]

You follow through with your plan and raise the turn. What's changed?

[Jeffage]

Raise anyway. He was more likely betting a Queen or a spade draw into you on the flop...it's unlikely he has an ace. Definitely raise.

Jeff

[Tyler Durden]

Raising the flop is the right play.

[Ted Geisel]

Call the turn.

If he bets out on the river, call. If he checks, bet out.
(Assuming no K or Q falls on the river.)
If he has an Ace only, you lose two bets. If he has a Q only, you win two bets.

I disagree with those above who say raise anyway; if he has an Ace, you lose three bets by the river, unless you are willing to lay down KK when he bets the river. If he doesn't have an Ace, you win one bet if he folds the raise and two bets if he calls the raise and folds the river.

Sending 2 for 2 seems a better deal than sending 3 for 2, at least to me.

[JAA]

In this spot, I'd raise the turn and check through the river if I don't improve. If he is a typical player and bets into me again on the river after my turn raise, I would muck.

As a sidenote, I would definitely raise the flop almost 100% of the time here. The flop is too coordinated to be slowplaying an overpair. If it were a Q62 rainbow or something to that effect, then I could see a much better argument for waiting until the turn to raise. Also, if you had raised the flop it would be much easier to find out where you are in terms of the A hitting on the turn.

- JAA

[Ed Miller]

You should raise the turn. What reason do you have to think your opponent has an Ace (especially since he bet out on the flop)?

[bernie]

HU to the flop, im not worried about the flush draw as much...this isnt the time id be waiting for the turn. no reason to..other than varying your play a little on a tight table...fine
meaning, youre not doing the move to charge the draws more, because it's less likely he has a draw.

anyway...wouldnt this hand had been easier to play if you raised the flop? many make a good point asking what has changed..when the guy represented a Q or draw on the flop bet. if you raise the turn, could you lay it down to a 3 bet?

it's an unknown player, so you 'could' test him a little on the turn. but his 3 bet is still something to consider, should he do it. remember youre a 'new' player to him too. what is he putting you on...

another way of doing it is calling thru then raising the river. OR just giving up a little here and calling down for the information since you have a good shot at winning the hand anyway, and making it up on later hands. it's only 2 BB and youre not going to make this a routine play against him. youre just doing it this time...

there are a few ways, all with good reasons, to play this hand here...

b

[Sooga]

I decided to do what bernie said in his post and call him down. The reason I was scared of an ace is perhaps he was on the nut flush draw, and the turn gave him a pair of aces. I called his turn bet and the river was an offsuit T, and he bet once again, and I called, and he flipped over JT, and I took it down.

[bernie]

hindsight

it may have accidentally been the best way to play it since a raise at any time he may have folded...

now it's a matter of using this information in later hands, look for a pattern, and if he have calls a raise with a similar hand later on...

b