Picking off a bluff

[Mercman572]

No current reads (I am on my comp at home, my other PT data is at school) but I think I remember this villain as being a bad LAG. I'm just not buying this turn bet. Thoughts?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) internettexasholdem.com

CO ($69.35)
Button ($130)
SB ($116.05)
BB ($126.45)
Hero ($100)
MP ($76.35)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.50.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $4</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls $4, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls $3.

Flop: ($12.50) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $12</font>, CO calls $12, BB folds.

Turn: ($36.50) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, CO calls $53.35 (All-In), Hero calls $53.35.

Is it weird/bad that I would've folded this if he bet $20?

sometimes i will overbet the pot like this for this exact reason... to get the call. although it doesn't really make sense with you having raised pre flop.

[Malachii]

Weird hand. I'd probably lead the turn, it plays differently. I'm not sure about the call, I'd like it a lot more if you had the King of diamonds. I think I probably call as played, but I think it's pretty close...

[Mercman572]

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sometimes i will overbet the pot like this for this exact reason... to get the call. although it doesn't really make sense with you having raised pre flop.

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with every conceivable draw hitting it makes no sense for him to push this turn. That's why I called. With very little read this would be a horrendous play if you want a call assuming you're villain.

[Mercman572]

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Weird hand. I'd probably lead the turn, it plays differently.

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I was planning on check folding. Leading the turn sets me up for a bluff when I check the river, or commits me to a call. I think it was blaringly obvious I was afraid of the flush draw given how I played this, so I couldn't see a made hand doing this once he pushed.

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I'm not sure about the call, I'd like it a lot more if you had the King of diamonds. I think I probably call as played, but I think it's pretty close...

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I agree king of diamonds would make this much easier to pick off

[Maulik]

thedustbustr,

What bluff are you picking off tptk + re-draw to nut flush? this hand can only get you into trouble. Sans [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] redraw, easy fold.

[Mercman572]

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thedustbustr,

What bluff are you picking off tptk + re-draw to nut flush? this hand can only get you into trouble. Sans [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] redraw, easy fold.

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He is more lag than I remember, I've seen him since. As I said he's bad Lag. He had mid pair no redraw and MHIG (yes I thought he had TPGK with or without a FD). I don't think this is atypical. I've encountered alot of party lags that will call a flop in position purely for the scare cards.


Oh and i'm not dustbstr [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[Maulik]

Mercman572,

If he's a bad LAG, I think posting this hand is unnecessary. We'll find a call regardless of what we say. Nonetheless, solid poker dicatates folding without the re-draw; can we agree on that?

[Mercman572]

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Mercman572,

If he's a bad LAG, I think posting this hand is unnecessary. We'll find a call regardless of what we say. Nonetheless,

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If I thought it was a clear call, I wouldn't have posted it. Lags catch hands too. It's not a clear cut spot and Malachi's post offered valuable insight... sometimes a bad lag might push a draw when hit, I didn't think this was one of these times.

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solid poker dicatates folding without the re-draw; can we agree on that?"

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I think you're missing the point of this post. If a player is aggressive you have to have decide what his aggression means. The entire hand "felt" like it was inconsistent with what he was representing. With these guys you have to decode what their bet is meant to do and generally do the opposite. PFR, followed by a close to PSB. He calls in position with a big and obvious draw, and when it looks like I got scared by the turn card he pushes with another card to come? Doesn't look like he wants a call. As I said, a smaller bet would be much more consistent (and what I expected to see when that ugly card came) with a made hand; it wants a call.

This call was inspired by a midstakes post of a player vs AceHighStation. In the hand Acehigh fired 2 PSB's HU when all small cards came. Xorbie suggested hero with QQ push this turn since the extremely large bet seemingly wanted a call. Xorbie was right and Acehigh had AK overs.

I made this post because I'm beginning to think that many opponents at this level are "designing" bets to achieve a purpose; 1/2 pot blocker bets on the river, 2/3 turn bets to protect against a flushdraw. If you read teh mid-high Faq Soah has made he says the key distinction is deviating between ABC play. Since this is the cusp of the 2 stakes, there should be some transfer. If my thinking process isn't valid, I would hope that someone could explain why.