Best Video Game 1988-1994 Round 3

[Blarg]

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FF6 losing (and by such a large margin) indicates to me that people simply haven't played it. There is no way that people who have played both games to end could even possibly have 20% that say SMB3. I think SMB3 is a top 10 game all time, but the ONLY thing it edges FF6 in is revolutionary stuff.

FF6 had better plot, music, theme, etc. SMB3 was "revolutionary"....then again so was FF6.


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LOL. you are trying to compare plot.. as if the plot means a damn thing in Mario 3 / any platformer game? In that case, RPGs should sweep every match I guess.

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Length or complexity does not a good story or plot make. RPG's would definitely not have the lock on good stories. Just long and complex ones.

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Blarg is correct. I'll indicate this in future threads with a BIC. However, I think that the size of the story's vehicle can help good stories play out to their fullest, and thus be their best. I think it's easier for a great story to come to fruition in an 800 page book than in the confines of a 2 hour movie, and moreso in an 80 hour game.

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I immediately thought of how Stephen King drags out stories painfully to make whopping fat books absolutely stuffed with filler, and how clean and sweat an economical short story can be.

And I then thought of all the people reviewing RTS's according to their story, calling them "revolutionary" because of this or that in the story or disappointing because of some other thing. I'm a huge fan of RTS's, but to me this is like rating pornos on the plot. Who the heck even cares? It's the gameplay that's the thing, and especially against other people.

I think what makes most games good is a good interface, good game mechanics, and a world that is good for what you can do in it on your own, without being guided. I've loved many games that have been criticized for their plots, which either most people or nobody really cared about at all - DOOM, Descent, Everquest, Total Annihilation, etc.

To me, plot is okay in a game, but it's mostly a passive aspect of the entertainment, what you'd get and enjoy while watching a show. When playing in a world, you make your own plot, and the plot at any rate is almost always of almost no consequence. You're there for the nailbiting decisions and action and pride and fun of doing something in the game really well. Plot? Meh.

In the rare game like Half-Life, it can matter, but mostly I'm too busy playing to care about a plot. I'd guess something like 1% of Everquest players knew more than a fraction of the plot, and it was by far the most successful RPG of all time for years on end.

I think plot has more than trivial significance for the average player in just a small(though sometimes high selling) segment of the gaming market, say in adventure games like Myst. Which probably 100 times more people bought or were given than actually played it much.

except evercrack is an MMO... should that follow the same rules about rpg's?

the most important things in a game should be gameplay, and immersiveness. These are things that the modern game industry has forgotten, that I will bring back to it... after college.

[einbert]

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the most important things in a game should be gameplay, and immersiveness.

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Word.

I can't wait to play your games man.

[Blarg]

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I dont see how Chrono Trigger isnt the best game ever. I honestly think most people have never played it.

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And I think you've never played X-COM.

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I've never played X-COM but your posts and incredible amount of enthusiasm for the game have convinced me to give this project Xenocide thing a try.

By the way, if you like RPGs at all, try and give Chrono Trigger a chance. You can download the emulated version free from various sites. I really think it is one of the richest RPGs of all time, in terms of gameplay, character development, graphics, plot, music. In fact I would say just about every aspect of that game is top-notch. I'd be surprised if you hated it, you seem to have good taste and an eye for gameplay and details. For me, those are easily the two most important traits in determining the quality of any game.

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From the way people seem to be so fond of it, it probably is pretty darn good.

What's happening here is you have two games squaring off against each other and almost certainly very few people have played both. So it just comes down to a numbers game, and X-COM being the older game is going to lose automatically because of that alone almost no matter what it was paired against, unless it was a game everyone hated.

[durron597]

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From the way people seem to be so fond of it, it probably is pretty darn good.

What's happening here is you have two games squaring off against each other and almost certainly very few people have played both. So it just comes down to a numbers game, and X-COM being the older game is going to lose automatically because of that alone almost no matter what it was paired against, unless it was a game everyone hated.

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Except Super Mario 3 crushed pretty much everything in its path (until now).

[Blarg]

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except evercrack is an MMO... should that follow the same rules about rpg's?

the most important things in a game should be gameplay, and immersiveness. These are things that the modern game industry has forgotten, that I will bring back to it... after college.

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MMORPG, RPG, same thing, just turned into a suffix in one. Some people even played MMORPG's like Everquest on emulators so they could play it with a small select group of friends. It still works basically the same.

Playing against actual humans is always more challenging, though. They're much trickier and more surprising than any AI, and without cheating(you hope anyway). The human dimension greatly changes things, but since RPG's aren't usually directly competitive, the gameplay is similar enough.

A bigger difference would be something more competitive like FPS's or especially RTS's. There are good bots in FPS's, but an RTS completely changes character between offline and online, as other people play almost nothing like AI's and are much harder.

[Blarg]

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From the way people seem to be so fond of it, it probably is pretty darn good.

What's happening here is you have two games squaring off against each other and almost certainly very few people have played both. So it just comes down to a numbers game, and X-COM being the older game is going to lose automatically because of that alone almost no matter what it was paired against, unless it was a game everyone hated.

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Except Super Mario 3 crushed pretty much everything in its path (until now).

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The Marios are about the best known games ever. Having one of them walk over all opposition is pretty much to be expected. They didn't come and go quickly nor were they any kind of a specialty taste or something put in limited circulation.

[Phoenix1010]

Obviously the freedom of a large canvas can cause the artist to try to do too much. Plenty of stories just spin wildly out of control, Metal Gear Solid 2 is a great example for anyone who's played it. Having all that space is a benefit only if the creator uses it right, but it can be a big benefit.

You're narrowing games down too much. The different genres emphasize different qualities, what's important to a racing game might not be such a big deal in an adventure game. In fighting and action games, the story is irrelevant; in adventure games, a decent story can be a nice bonus; In standard console RPGs (Everquest and the like are a different beast altogether), the story is by far the most important element. In some cases a game that is busted in every other way can be one of the genre's all time greats based on story alone (Xenogears).

Edit: Just realized you might not have played the kind of game I'm talking about. Games like the Final Fantasy series have evolved into more of an interactive storybook than an actual game. It's still pretty niche, so I guess not everyone would know it.

[durron597]

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In standard console RPGs (Everquest and the like are a different beast altogether), the story is by far the most important element.

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Why FFVIII sucked

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In some cases a game that is busted in every other way can be one of the genre's all time greats based on story alone (Xenogears).

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yep, Xenosaga sucked too except for the story.

[einbert]

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What's happening here is you have two games squaring off against each other and almost certainly very few people have played both. So it just comes down to a numbers game, and X-COM being the older game is going to lose automatically because of that alone almost no matter what it was paired against, unless it was a game everyone hated.

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I totally agree.