Can someone explain 2/5 limit hold'em in Colorado for me???

[wdbaker]

All,
Can someone explain 2/5 limit hold'em in Colorado for me???
I am planning to go to black hawk or cental city in Colorado soon and not sure I understand how they are playing limit hold'em there. I currently only play online and hold my own up to 2/4, don't have the BR to go any higher yet.

Thanks for any info you have, also looking for strategy if different.

One street at a time
wdbaker Denver, Co

[J.R.]

A rasie can be anywhere from the blind amount (minimum 2, but players have the option of making the blind more- there is only one blind) to $5.

In my opinion, big cards go up in value because the $5 raise to $7 can crush the suited craps implied odds. I think suited connectors play worse, because: 1) the fairly standard $5 bet on the flop hurts your drawing odds and 2) there is no double bet on the turn and the river. (Pay attention to pot size). This structure does make small pairs playable from anywhere for $2 because of the high implied odds offered by the $5 bet on each subsuquent street.

Be wary of calling big raises, and get ready to get sucked out on. Because of the $5 dollar max bet in Colorado, everybody plays the same game so you may see one or two very good plays and some unbelievebly poor players at the same time. (The poor players are much more common)

The rake is steep, 10% taken from each $10 in the pot up to $4 ($3 +$1 jackpot), so stay away from marginal plays, and coupled with the miniscule blind, I don't think stealing is something to be considered. You make you money by having poor players call your $5 raises to $7 with suited garbage.

Harvey's spreads stud/8 and/or stud and has a no-limit tournament. The Station (a dump offers) 2-4 omaha/8. If going on a weekend, get ther ein the afternoon to avoid the lists and enjoy the juicy rotation of weekend gamblers trying their luck a different things. Smoking is permitted everywhere but Harvey's. If you stay late to play (especially weekends), leave before closing (about 1:45) because everybody gambles untill close and then you have a lot of people leaving at once down a small one lane canyon road. Not fun. :-(

[wdbaker]

J.R.,
OK, let me make sure I got this, only 1 blind which starts at 2, but if i just feel like flipping in 5 instead of 2 I can do that even before I've seen my cards?

Play all pairs for $2, and only MP and LP suited if 7 or 8 are in the hand to get around the odds issue?

And Harveys if I don't want to smell like a chimney when I get home [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Would this be accurate

Also could you give an online equivalency rating for difficulty, example: its like a no foldem 1/2 with jacked up odds etc....

One street at a time
wdbaker Denver, Co

[J.R.]

My bad, I meant to say the Hyatt is the non-smoking room. The minimum blind amount is 2, but you have the option of making the blind any amount between 2 and 5.

You can play suited cards with less that 7 or 8 in the pot, but you want to be aware of the pot size and look for good mulitway spots that offer better odds than you are accostumed to needing in a structured game.

The games can vary, but on a good weekend they will emulate a live low limit online game, with lots of calling station behavior. Many weak-loose opponents. The best hand usually must be shown down when the game is good. Good luck.

[wdbaker]

All
has anyone done any analysis on this type of game as far as simulations, adjustments to the starting hands etc....? has S&M ever spoke about this type of game?

Is anyone smoking this game on a regular basis?
I want to go play because I've never been at a real card table before, but don't want to spend a lot of time if not really feasible after rake, tokes etc....

One street at a time
wdbaker Denver, Co

[oddjob]

if the game is not very aggressive, you can usually limp in with a lot more hands from late position. it seems a lot of people like to see the flop as cheaply as possible.

when there is a raise, you can get some crazy calling stations, and you rarely ever see it get 3 bet or 4 bet. even people with pocket aces will only cold call a raise to $7, instead of reraising.

because of spread limit, you can sometimes put people on hands depending on how much they raise. raise to $7 big pocket pairs big slick, big suited connectors. any raise below that means smaller suited connectors or smaller pocket pairs. this isn't true for everyone, of course

this game is no fold em hold. but there are times when people will call you to showdown with bottom pair.

hyatt is non-smoking and has 6 tables and some of the most obnoxious bands playing right below the poker area, the lodge is smoking but has 15 tables, and great action on the weekend.

central station sounds like they're closing their room

good luck and have fun.

[rharless]

This is copied from an email I sent to a friend awhile back... with a few minor edits to apply to your questions.

Blinds:
<ul type="square"> [*]There is only one blind, and it is only required to be $2 [*]You can make your blind more than $2, but to do so would be throwing away money (see exception below)[*]People can live-straddle your blind, which you will find not infrequently ... they usually straddle for $5. People will also make a dead-raise to $6 or $7 but that is very rare[*] Exception: If UTG is regularly straddling your blind, you can "defend" by posting a $3 blind. To "straddle" you, they then have to put out $6 (i.e. double your blind), but that bet is then dead. Therefore, putting out $3 blind will discourage straddlers who want a live bet b/c they want to jack it up.[/list]
Bets/Raises:
<ul type="square"> [*]Any opening bet on any street must be at least $2[*]Any raise must be at least equal to the increment of the previous bet or raise (e.g. betting could go $2, raise to $5, raise to $8)[*]Any bet or raise is maxed at a $5 increment[*]Everyone usually bets the max $5 on the flop/turn/river. Some people will bet only 2 or 3 but they are weenies. It's (imho) a big mistake to bet less than $5, though maybe a few times a year, I think I see a good spot for a $2 bet.[*]There is one bet and five raises allowed. Therefore if the blind is $2, the preflop would be capped at $27. An opening bet of $5 on the flop turn or river can be capped at $30. Online usually allows 3 raises and most cardrooms allow 4 raises (I think).[*]Unlimited raises are allowed, of course, if the round begins headsup.[/list]
Strategy:
<ul type="square"> [*] As JR has said, suited cards go to crap, while big cards go up in value. In a structured game, you can draw cheaply and get paid off with big bets when you are on a flush/straight draw. In $2-$5, your draw is expensive and then you can only bet small (relatively) when your flush comes in.[*] To overemphasize what JR said, pairs are golden. Invest $2 from any position with any pair (assuming your game is typical, i.e. usually 5-handed+ to the flop). Flop a set and bet it hard.[*] Pot odds are definitely important, but with good table selection, you can get a 70%+ seeing the flop and don't have to worry too much about odds for your draws.[*] Pick bluffing spots judiciously. It's "only $5" and they will call you just out of curiousity. I once bluffed with Q high, was called by two people, and I still won [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img][*] In general, I play tighter up front and looser in LP than I do in a structured game. I play tight up front because I hate having $2 in when someone raises to $7 behind me. But if it's a passive table, then I loosen up EP.[*] If it is after 1am, be wary. The games start ramming and jammin around this time b/c everyone knows they have only 45 minutes left to lose their money, so how bad can it be? Be sensitive to if your game is going on tilt, and if so, either hang on for a wild ride or play only premium cards.[/list]
Rake:
<ul type="square">[*]At 10%, it's bad compared to anywhere else (and in Cripple Creek it's even worse, as they rake $3.50). [*] Tokes are normally $1 for a reasonable pot. Players will often toke $1 even if they only win $6 or $7 (I don't do that). Good dealers will push the toke back to you and say "that was small, get me next time."[*] Between rake, bad beat drop, and toke, you lose $5 a hand. That's a lot for a $5 game.[*] But yes, it IS beatable, if you don't add in the price of gas [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]. I have won (very modestly) over the last four years. I believe JR is a winning player too, from his posts, though I haven't (knowingly) met him. I know one person who averages over $10/hr, if he is to be believed.[/list]
Quality of players:
<ul type="square">[*] It's really hit or miss -- table selection is very important, more so than any other location I have played at.[*] There are a lot of very bad players who nonetheless bet with confidence. Don't let someone's table persona make you overrate them [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img][*] There's a lot of players who are very bad preflop but really have solid post-flop skills. As such, raise more preflop to compound their preflop mistakes.[*] If you can beat 2-4 online then you are certainly ready to take a stab at BlackHawk[/list]
Rooms
<ul type="square">[*] Lodge -- "THE" place to play. Lots of crazy action. A haven for 5-5 players (two $5 blinds, aka "river lotto.") Definitely smoky. Sometimes the 2-5 game can be tight because all the loose guys are playing 5-5. Soup/mini-sandwich bar. Soon to add two tables.[*] Hyatt -- non smoking. Good $5 comps for players who stay 4 hours (technically). Usually good action. Loud bands. Half the size of the Lodge. This is my personal room of choice. They are probably moving the room behind the blackjack pit eventually so it won't be so loud. Also soon to add 2-3 tables.[*] Harvey's -- lots of old farts, games tend to be tight, but at least very predictable. Room is small and slower so might be a good place for a newbie. But it is (imho) a really boring place to play. They have a tournament on Thursdays to increase their live action, but after the tournament, all of the guys leave and play at the Hyatt -- which consequently has good games on Thursdays [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img].[*] Central Station -- smoky, loud, and will be closing in June. They were just bought by a new owner who tried to close the room last week, but they couldn't legally close the room because the bad beat had not been given away yet, and that money legally belongs to the players. [/list]
I play once per weekend at the Hyatt. If you end up trying the Hyatt, just PM me and I'll meet you there and explain any other answers in person. And I'll tell you if you should switch tables b/c there's too many sharks [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[orbie]

rharless-
hey,I've slowplayed with a $2 bet that paid off pretty good. Only my second time at a table though.

I'd like some more info on the tournment at Harvey's.

To everyone else in the Denver/Boulder area I've discussed a 2+2 get together with oddjobs. I could host it when I get moved into a new place, here in a month or so. Until then I propose setting a date and getting everyone out to blackhawk. I've counted 9 of us in the area so far:
J.R-
wdbaker-
oddjob-
willmunny-
comic2b-
MtSmalls-
rharless-
johnd-
and myself.-

well,let me know what you guys think. -ORBIE-

[rharless]

I think it's rare that a $2 bet is good, but yes, there's appropriate times. Flopping quads against people vying for Biggest Sucker prize (A high goot?), is one of those good opportunities. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

I've also seen $2 bets effectively used to confuse a passive LP opponent, who probably has the better hand, into just calling $2 instead of betting $5, effectively saving the EP person a few bucks yet still make it to showdown.

That said, I still think $2 bets are mistakes the majority of the time.

I played with a guy once who raised to $7 with AA, $6 with KK, and $5 with QQ. Thanks mister!!!


[edited b/c I forgot to respond to your other comments]

PS -- Sorry I don't play in the Harvey's tournament so I don't have the info. If it's like the old Bullwhackers one (which it was meant to "replace") then it's a $35 buy-in, two $30 rebuys.

PPS -- Am up for a 2+2 Rocky Mntn get together as long as we don't all end up playing at the same table and beating each other up. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

[rkiray]

The Hyatt is also smoke free