89s in multi-way raised pot

poboy · #1 07-19-2005, 01:12 AM

Haven't been at table long but villians seem pretty typical LAG.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (8 handed) converter

BB ($31.60)
UTG ($49.80)
UTG+1 ($81.85)
MP1 ($59.90)
MP2 ($48.95)
Hero ($45.75)
Button ($59.55)
SB ($12.85)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.50, MP1 calls $0.50, MP2 calls $0.50, Hero raises to $3.5, 3 folds, UTG+1 calls $3, MP1 calls $3, MP2 calls $3.

Flop: ($14.75) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+1 bets $5, MP1 raises to $10, MP2 calls $10, Hero ????

What do you do and why?

Allinlife · #2 07-19-2005, 01:18 AM

who's villan? if MP1 is villan, this is very easy push.

poboy · #3 07-19-2005, 01:23 AM

They all seem fairly LAG, MP2 was more on the LP side.

swolfe · #4 07-19-2005, 01:31 AM

fold. the bet was the nut flush draw, the raise was at least top pair, the cold-caller was a straight draw. too many of your outs are counterfeited and you have the low end of all the draws.

poboy · #5 07-19-2005, 01:48 AM

The only reasonable str8 draw that could call here is JK, in which case I'm drawing very live. I'm more worried about the flush draw which I believe the minraiser has. The donk leading out could have anything from bottom pair on up. You don't think pushing is an option?

Publos Nemesis · #6 07-19-2005, 01:53 AM

dude, fold. as swolfe says, you are in trouble. i know they are donks, but one of them has a better flush draw. that is the end of your decision since you may have, at best 6 outs. At worst, you have 3 outs. Not a good time to get your money in, is it?

Allinlife · #7 07-19-2005, 01:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
fold. the bet was the nut flush draw, the raise was at least top pair, the cold-caller was a straight draw. too many of your outs are counterfeited and you have the low end of all the draws.

[/ QUOTE ]
i think folding is correct when flop action is heavy with deeper stacks.

given inflated potsize and hero's 30%~40% equity hand with decent folding equity i think push is the correct move.

more often than not, that initial better's bet says "I have a flush draw", second guy says "I have top pair, but where am I?" and your push says "roar I have over pair"

they will be making a mistake folding pair hands and even if you are wrong, you have 30% equity to suck out vs sets. 40% vs top 2.

on top of all that, it'll also set up your image to push with draws in which point you start pushing in the same spot with sets.

poboy · #8 07-19-2005, 02:04 AM

I'm only in trouble if the flush draw stays in, against everything else I'm drawing very live and the pot is huge.

swolfe · #9 07-19-2005, 02:07 AM

yeah, wonderful, i push with draws all the time. but not when the nut flush draw is likely to be in the hands of a bad player (killing 2 of my flush outs, and a likely call of my push) and the ass end of a gut shot (with at least 1 of my jacks likely dead).

you don't have to push every time you have a decent draw when the action says that your draws, if you hit, would likely be no good.

i think that you're grossly overestimating the fold equity.

Reef · #10 07-19-2005, 02:27 AM

fold. You're probably against a higher flush draw and possibly drawing dead.

J9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or KK is my cutoff for pushing here